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032: How to Start a Podcast with Pat Flynn

Learn how to start a podcast with Pat Flynn of Smart Passive Income, plus he debunks common podcasting myths and shares his best promotion tips.

Wondering how to start a podcast?

Maybe starting a podcast has crossed your mind, but you’re still on the fence about if it’s worth it.

But did you know there are only 1 million podcasts, vs. 500 million blogs and 50 million YouTube channels?

And did you know that podcasting is one of the best ways to build an audience, connect with others in meaningful ways, and build your brand–even from scratch?

One of the cool things about podcasts specifically, unlike any other platform–including blogging–is that you can spend way more time with people. When listening to a podcast, people are spending 30 minutes to one hour or more with you for some episodes. Your voice is literally in that person’s ear, and thus you can’t help but build an amazingly strong relationship with those listeners.

Ready to learn how to start a podcast?

How to Start a Podcast with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income

My guest today, Pat Flynn is a father, husband, and entrepreneur who lives and works in San Diego, CA. He owns several successful online businesses and is a professional blogger, keynote speaker, Wall Street Journal bestselling author, and host of the Smart Passive Income and AskPat podcasts, which have earned a combined total of over 60 million downloads, multiple awards, and features in publications such as The New York Times and Forbes. He is also an advisor to ConvertKit, LeadPages, Teachable, and other companies in the digital marketing arena.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

  • Why podcasts are the best platforms (even if you don’t have an audience!)
  • How to bust common myths about podcasting
  • Tips and practical strategies on how to engage and grow your audience and create superfans (and thus create a sustainable business)
  • Why ‘the riches are in the niches’ and how you can make six-figures with only 1000 true fans
  • How to use podcasting and blogging in tandem

Subscribe and Review

Thanks so much for joining me this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the bottom of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The Success with Soul Podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can improve and better serve you in the future. Plus, you could be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and I read each and every one of them.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts to get automatic updates. My goal for this podcast is to inspire those who seek flexibility and freedom in their lives by making something happen with holistic, soulful, step-by-step strategies from me and other experts.

Links + Resources Mentioned in this Episode: 

Related Episodes:

More Ways to Enjoy Success with Soul

Kate Kordsmeier 0:00

Well, Hey, y'all,

it's Episode 32 of the Success with Soul podcast. I'm your host, Kate Kordsmeier. And today, oh boy, today we have the one and only Pat Flynn in the house. So this is going to get a little bit meta here. but bear with me, the fact that I got to sit down and have a one hour long face to face conversation with Pat Flynn, amongst all of the other incredible guests that I've had. If that's not reason enough to start a podcast, I don't know what is, I feel like the luckiest girl in the world. But of course, there's lots of other great reasons to start a podcast. And Pat is here today sharing why podcasts are the best medium, and we're busting some myths. We're talking about how to grow your podcast, how to use podcasts, and blogging together in tandem, all with a really healthy dose of mindset and the soulful strategies you've come to know and love from the show. But before we get into it, I do want to take a quick minute just in case anybody here doesn't know who Pat Flynn is. I do realize he is only the second man to ever come on the show. So I may be talking to an audience that's not familiar with his work. So Pat is the genius behind Smart Passive income. It's a blog. It's a podcast. He also has the Ask Pat podcast, both of which have earned a combined total of over 60 million downloads, multiple awards and features in publications like the New York Times and Forbes. He also is an advisor to ConvertKit lead pages, teachable and other companies in the digital marketing arena and he has a handful of online courses under his belt in addition to some best selling books. I personally took his course, power up podcasting last year before I started working on my podcast. Yes, this one you're listening to right now. So this is the exact course I went through to learn the ropes and launch the very podcast you're listening to right now I learned a ton and pat made the process feel so much easier and doable. I know firsthand how overwhelming it can be to get started with podcasting or really any new project and stuck with like all the new tech and production and content planning and marketing. It's a lot. So that's why when I knew I wanted to start my podcast, I decided to learn from the best in the industry. So in his course power up podcasting, Pat walks you through step by step the entire process of going from idea to implementation to post launch success. Plus you get a supportive Facebook group, community and office hours with Pat himself. So if you've dreamed about starting your very own podcast, but keep getting stuck with questions like what equipment and software Am I supposed to use? How do I land interviews with big name guests? How do I get my show loaded into Apple podcasts or Spotify or even after your show goes live if you're wondering how you're going to make sure people find it and actually grow an audience. I highly recommend taking power up podcasting. So if you're ready to stop thinking about starting a podcast and actually want to get started today, after you listen to this episode with Pat go to to join the power of podcasting and get one step closer to launching your podcast. That's And now without further ado, let's get into it. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier ex journalists turned CEO of a multi six figure blog and online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity, and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts thousands and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kate and other experts, you're in the right place. Here's your host writer, educator, mom recovering perfectionist, bookworm and sushi connoisseur Kate


Pat Flynn, I can't believe that I am interviewing you today on my show. Welcome.

Pat Flynn 4:34

I'm honored. Thank you so much for having me.

Kate Kordsmeier 4:36

I have to say this show is really thanks to you because I took your power up podcasting course last year, came up with my full plan did everything you said and here we are today. And now full circle. You're on the


Pat Flynn 4:49

Oh, that's awesome. You're rock star. Thank you for taking action more than anything that just makes me so happy.

Kate Kordsmeier 4:55

Oh, I hear you on that. I have my own course as well and watching students Take action that just lights me up. And then sometimes when they when they don't take action and don't get the results, it's just so heartbreaking.

Pat Flynn 5:07

Right? Right. Well, whatever I can do to help. I'm here for you. Thank you everybody who's listening in, I'm excited. Cool.

Kate Kordsmeier 5:14

So in case anybody doesn't know who Pat Flynn is, which I would find hard to believe on my show, give us your quick and dirty elevator pitch,

Pat Flynn 5:24

quick and dirty elevator pitch. Sure. So I went to school for architecture thought I was going to be an architect for the rest of my life. And then on June 17 2008, I was let go, and it was a big blow, I didn't have a plan B, I was doing everything I could to have this secure position. I had done everything as the way it was supposed to. And yet, I still felt like it was very, very upsetting. I got into a little state of depression. And thankfully, I discovered podcasts during this time, this was early days podcasting, like 2007 2008 time. And there was one show in particular that really inspired me was called internet business mastery. And the reason I like them was because they felt like real people. To me, I think that's what I love about podcasts, in general, it's just like, you can really connect with the person on the other end. And they had a guy on the show who was interviewed, who talked about how he was making six figures a year online, which number one just blew me away that that was even possible, because I'd never really explored this space before. But secondly, he was doing it by helping people pass the project management exam or the pm exam. And I was like, first of all, I've never even heard of that exam. But as an architect, I've taken several exams and one in particular that I had just taken that was so hard that I remembered, wow, there was like nobody talking about this, nobody sharing any information. What if I became the go to person for that exam? Like maybe this could be a business? And of course, when you start thinking these things, these what ifs these will convert to well, what if this is a waste of time? What if this is a failure? What if this is just, you know, what if I should just go back to get my master's degree or something. So I had to fight through a lot of demons. But eventually, I created a website called in the, lead was the name of the exam. And I started helping people. And little did I know that this was going to change the rest of my life, because by posting information on that website, Google started to share my website with everybody else who was looking for this information. And when people found it, they started sharing it with all their friends, too, because apparently, it was really helpful. And then later in the year, I published a study guide, I wrote my notes in a book and published it as a PDF file. And I had made two and a half times more money in the first month after I launched that than I was making, after four years of architecture. And I was just like, Oh, my gosh, and then I started looking at the door. Because I thought that at any moment, the FBI would come and arrest me because it just didn't feel like I went to school for five years of architecture. And here I was in three, four months building something that was making more money, I just didn't feel real, but it was totally real. And I committed to being an entrepreneur soon after that. So although the layoff was the hardest thing I ever went through, it was in fact, the best thing that ever happened. Then everybody started asking me, well, how did you do that? Can you show me and I was like, Well, I can just show you what I did. I don't know what works, unless I just show you what I did. So that's what I did. I started website, which is where most people know me from now. Smart, passive income calm. And I just started sharing everything, everything I was learning everything that I was failing at my numbers, how much money I was making, how much money I was spending. And then soon enough, that website started to gain popularity, because a lot of people who were teaching online business, or either charging you for that kind of information, or we're just kind of like in front of their mansions and Lamborghinis. And, you know, my Lamborghini is a 2012, Toyota Sienna with a soccer mom van. Like that's, that's my that was my car of choice for a while. And so people who had families and who were wanting to do this, just to kind of provide financial security really resonated with me, and this took off. And here we are today. podcaster, author, keynote speaker, advisor to company, it's just unreal, it's just unreal. And I just have to continue to keep creating content to help people and pay it forward. Because it really changed my life. It's allowed me to spend more time with my family, to better support my wife, and to even help more people around the world and get recognized for it. Just I feel incredibly honored and grateful every every day for this.

Kate Kordsmeier 9:00

I love your story so much. Because it is such a good reminder that like a lot of times out of pain out of failure out of trauma is really where the best ideas are born. And I'm so you know, it's cheesy to say like, oh, turn lemons into lemonade, but it's true. And you're such a good example of that.

Pat Flynn 9:21

It's all about the story you tell yourself after the thing that happened, right? Because I mean, I went through a couple weeks of just like literally doing nothing and thinking about all the things that I wish I had done differently. What really helped me escape was actually watching my favorite movie called Back to the Future. And I watched it over and over again. Because there was a little part of me that was like, oh, what if there was a time machine that maybe I can go back and change things? And then it like the movie ended? And I was like, Oh, I can't change things. I can't go back into the past. But like in the movie, the things you do now, write your story for the future. And here I was in this moment. What kind of story did I want to tell my kids? What kind of story do you want to do? I want to be remembered. For somebody who just sat there and wished everything was different, or somebody who stepped up and tried to make things work, I would much rather live a life full of Oh wells than a life full of what ifs, the old wells at least gave it a shot. You know, I'm saying you're right, you have to start off messy, you have to be a disaster before you become the master. turn those lemons into lemonade, and a quote I heard recently from James Wedmore, that I really resonated with, and I want to share with all of you, and that is, when you do something, you either get the result you wanted, or the lesson you needed. Yeah, so good. with whatever I do. Now, I always know even if it's a failure, it's not a complete loss, because I'm always learning. And that's what we need to do at the start.

Kate Kordsmeier 10:40

Yeah. So along those lines, one of the things that I came up against when I first started my website blog, and that I hear from a lot of my perspective students, you know, my course is the six figure blogger Academy, and a lot of people are like, oh, but you know, a, what if I fail, but what what is everybody going to think about me? If I start blogging? Did you have any of that, like, kind of stigma or worried that you know, your fellow architects were going to be like, blogging? Really?

Pat Flynn 11:09

Yeah, of course, definitely. And it took a while for me to understand why people say those kinds of things or feel that sort of way. And we'll get to that in a minute. But everyone from my architecture friends, like you said to myself, right, like, is this what I wanted? like is this I didn't go to school for this, is this throwing my education away? If I go down this route, and I become a blogger or a podcaster, even my dad who has always been so supportive, this was the one time he was like, Well, you know, maybe after a while, you can give it a shot. But then you can go back and get a real job. And I was like, a real job. Yeah. But he was right, though. Like, he was like, Well, hey, we're in the recession in 2008, this is a good time to go back to architecture school, get your master's degree, and you can come back and make even more money and do even better. And I was like, you're right. But I also know I did everything I was supposed to do before and still got like, go, I want to have control over my future. And I don't want to have anything else, or at least as much as possible have that opportunity to just sweep that rug out from under me like it happened. And I started to realize that a lot of this this came years later, not right away, this came years later in terms of realization. A lot of times people say things about you, because they're mostly worried about themselves, meaning if they were to support you in your blogging career, in a way denounces themselves as Oh, well, I, I'm not able to do that. So or I don't have the courage like you do to do that. So I'm just going to, we live in this world called called a bucket of crabs. I don't know if you've ever heard this analogy. But we live in a bucket of crabs, meaning if you ever take a bucket, and you put some live crabs into it, you will never have to worry about crabs climbing out, because as soon as one tries to climb out the other ones, pinch it and bring it back down. And that's the kind of world we live in, where we just no stay together be here. This is the right place to be

Kate Kordsmeier 13:00

safe here the status quo.

Pat Flynn 13:03

Right? Exactly. Or, hey, I don't want like, it almost makes us look worse if somebody else is doing better, which is not true. And I love living in this world of abundance where anybody can can can achieve anything if they really wanted it, and has the support. And unfortunately, we're around a lot of people who just can't imagine themselves doing something. So therefore, we can't imagine others doing that, too.

Kate Kordsmeier 13:26

Yeah, I love that. And it is so true. I what I end up telling a lot of people that come to me with that hesitation is like, first of all, screw what anybody else thinks, you know? Really it? Well? How do you what do you think? How do you feel? That's really the only thing that matters? But if we're going to play the game of Okay, yes, let's care about what other people think. Wouldn't you rather people think, look how courageous and bold and brave she is going after what she wants and trying something new. I would much rather you know, do that have people think that even if it didn't work out, rather than people be like, Oh, she just sat on the sidelines her whole life, like she never really went for anything. She just stayed played it safe. If we're going to go down that path, like that's what I would want people to think about me even if it failed. I

Pat Flynn 14:12

love that. I love that a lot. And sometimes we can't avoid those conversations. That's that's the number one thing to do. If you are around a bunch of people who just keep bringing you down. You have to question whether or not those are the people you really want to be be with, right? I think Jim Rohn, who said you are the average of the five people you spend most of your time with, right? And so you want to surround yourself with people who will lift you up. And unfortunately, sometimes it's like, literally family and we can't get like we can't just be like, you know, I'm not going to talk to you anymore. Because you know, you still need to eat or whatever. But in that case, I just often recommend just don't, don't bring it up, right, like, do what you need to do. And if it's somebody really close to you and obviously your choice to do this affects their lives, then we definitely need to have a conversation but I would have a very honest approach with for example, spouse who's Maybe not so supportive and just be like, hey, well do you? Do you actually understand why this is important to me? If not, can we talk about that? Because this is really important to me. And then you can have an honest conversation about that. And then maybe use that avenue to figure out what is important to the other person and support them that way too. And everybody can win. But it is a tough thing. Of course, sometimes it just takes one person to go, No, that's why you doing that, and you're done. You're like, you get in your own head, you start questioning everything, and you're never gonna help anybody, including yourself.

Kate Kordsmeier 15:30

Yeah, but I love what you said that nine times out of 10, if not more, it's about their own issues and their own stuff. It's not really about you. So yeah. Well, I'm glad we got kind of that mindset, pep talk. That was really good. And

Pat Flynn 15:44

it was good.

Kate Kordsmeier 15:45

So I'm, but I'm excited to dig in with you about podcasting today. And it's obviously a little meta because we're on a podcast. Casting. Here we are. And you said you got into podcasting in 2008. So I'm sure you have seen so many changes in the industry in the last 12 years. But it seems like podcasts are exploding today. Would you agree like now is a great time to start a podcast

Pat Flynn 16:11

1,000%. This is very similar to when blogging was taking off in the early 2000s. And in fact, Seth Godin recently said that podcasting is the new blogging, it's gonna take the same path, it literally is taking the same path, the technology is becoming a lot easier, it's easier to set it up. And so we're starting to see a little bit of saturation, which is okay, the cream always rises to the top. And there's going to be more tools. There's a lot of money being thrown around in the podcasting space. Now Spotify buying a couple programs, even purchasing Joe Rogan's podcast for nine figures, like there's some noise in the podcasting space now, but it's been around for a while. And the history of podcasting is mainly about the idea of blogging, but just allowing to put an audio file into an RSS feed. That's kind of where podcasting started. And it was only for like super nerdy, mostly men who just knew how to code audio into RSS feeds. And it was just like a very male dominated, very nerd dominated thing. And then more and more people started catching on. And then now it's like you said, mainstream, there's celebrities with their own podcast now, which is super fun. I absolutely love that because celebrities will bring new podcast listeners into the podcasting arena. And on average, people are subscribed to seven shows. And that's average. Some people I know are subscribed to 20 or 50 shows and it just becomes a part of their daily commute, it becomes a part of their routine when at the gym, or on a walk or wherever I listen to my podcasts when I'm doing dishes, or helping around the house, and everybody has their own spot for podcasts. And the cool thing about podcasts, unlike any other platform, including blogging, in my opinion, is that you can be able to spend way more time with people with your voice than with your words on a text or in text format, or even a video. And it's because of where we listen to podcasts. And in fact, if you think about it, a person may spend, you know, seven to 12 minutes reading a blog post, right, and they're not even reading every single word they're skipping around. Hopefully, you've structured your blog posts nicely with sub headlines and all those proper strategies on a YouTube video. I know because I'm diving into YouTube a lot too, because I'm just having a lot of fun there. If you get people to watch your video for more than five minutes, you're doing really well. Five minutes is really good. Social media, obviously a post comes and goes on a podcast, people are listening to 30 minutes, 45 minutes, one hour, three hours for some episodes. It's in sane and imagine your voice in that person's ear in the most intimate way possible. Like literally in their personal life while they're doing other things. You can't help but build an amazingly strong relationship. During that time, you will amass super fans much faster, you will have an easier time creating it then video To be honest, like you don't need to, like nobody knows what you're wearing or what you look like when you're podcasting. You could just put the mic on.

Kate Kordsmeier 19:10

I'm in my top knot and glasses right now.

Pat Flynn 19:15

I'm wearing just somehow sandals like here we go. It's super fun. And of course it's very evergreen as well. And it's just growing and growing. And what's cool is a lot of people binge listen to podcasts, like they binge watch Netflix episodes. It's so amazing. And word of mouth is huge. There are some struggles with podcasting that I think will get better over time like search engine, not search engines and algorithms for podcast quaint aren't up to par yet, but it's coming. But man, if you were to ask me to just do one format or form of content creation forever, I would say podcasting would be at interest saying that's really cool. So

Kate Kordsmeier 19:50

two follow up questions for you there. One is about that SEO and kind of podcasting and blogging but I'm going to come back to that because I wanted to address the thing. He said in the beginning that, you know, there is a little bit of a saturation point and maybe people are feeling like, Oh, I don't know, am I too late? You know, what do you feel like it it takes to grow an audience and a successful podcast today 2020 and beyond?

Pat Flynn 20:16

Great question, I'll start with some myths that people might have about podcasting, a big myth is that you have to have an audience already to make it work. But that's not true. There's a couple of things that are working in our favor. Number one, although it seems like there's a lot of podcasts like listen to these numbers, there are 500 million active blogs, there are about 5040 to 50 million active YouTube channels, we just crossed 1 million podcasts, April 20 2021, just 1 million. We are still in the early days of podcasting. And now's a great time to get on. So there is in fact, less competition than on some of those other platforms. Right, number two, with word of mouth at your favor. People will who talk to their friends, they meet with their friends, they talk to each other about these kinds of things more than they do about other things. So we have that working in our favor, too. And of course, search engines and those kinds of things can work too. If you have a blog, it's a perfect complement to a blog, you can just insert your podcast, episodes it within a blog post have the player there your podcast and blog and kind of live in harmony and cross promote each other, which is great. There are so many things working on our favor there. I have a student of mine, her name is Sophie Walker. She's one of our friends in power of podcasting. She has a podcast called the Australian birth stories. She interviews moms, yeah. mums. Mmm, because it's Australia, right? She started from scratch, no business. No, no nothing. And she now has had, I think six and a half million downloads. And it's completely changed her business, her life. And in fact, in Australia, a lot of organizations require their employees to listen to her show, because it's helping people learn about what life is like as a pregnant mom. And and you hear those stories, you don't feel like you're alone. And you can get additional credits for your work thing. I don't know exactly how that works over there. But that's like from scratch, she was able to make that happen. Another myth is like you have to have a big niche to succeed, right? Like, Oh, well, I don't want to go too narrow, because I want more listeners, right? So I'm just going to create a general fitness podcast and just like talking about all the topics. That's actually the opposite of what you want to do. If you want to grow, start narrow. I often say the riches are in the niches. Yeah, I know it's pronounced niches, I just want to get that disclaimer out of the way. But it rhymes better with niches. But it's like, the riches in the niches doesn't

win. When you start smaller. There's even less competition because you have a specialty. Now you have a certain group of people, you have a certain superpower that only a certain group of people will find Yes, but you're more able to become their go to favorite much sooner, you're more able to infiltrate that audience and that marketplace, people start talking about you more often. And you can better hone in on the language that that target audience will respond to, you can better hone in on stories that they'll relate to, you can better and be more likely to create products that actually serve that particular audience with that particular problem. So let's say for example, instead of a general fitness podcast, I might start Not me, I'm just an example would be a podcast specifically for female ultra marathon runners, not just runners, not just female runners, but female runners who are running those like 50 mile, you know those crazy insane, because imagine if I even just say running, right? There's a huge difference between what people who are just getting up off the couch for the first time and running their first five k, then versus somebody who's running an ultra marathon, right. So if I have that ultra marathon expertise, or passion or interest, then I can serve that audience. And what's really cool is things start to happen much more quickly. Companies that are in that audience, or target that audience want you to sponsor them, or want to sponsor your show, you're able to find more leaders in that space, because you are the one show about that. And so they're more likely to come on your show as a celebrity guest, for example. And then from there, you can either grow, you can grow a couple ways, because I know some people might be going, Oh, well, I don't want to pigeonhole myself into that forever. But that makes sense to start there. Can I grow outwardly? from there? Yeah, you can. Maybe instead of just female ultramarathon runners, now we're doing female and male later, or maybe we do ultra marathon and also Iron Man races after that, right? So I can expand outwardly. But here's what's funny. When you start narrow, and you become that go to person. Sometimes you're like, wow, I love it here. I'm just gonna stay here. And I'm going to serve this audience vertically, meaning now I have a podcast but I also have a course and I also have a mastermind group and I also have an event and I also have these a book about just for those people and you just kind of take over that space. It's again, very, very common for people. Want to expand horizontally and insert other niches into the space, but they end up going vertically and having more fun, and just becoming that specialty because you honestly don't need a lot of people to do some amazing things. There's an article that was written by a man named Kevin Kelly back in 2006. And this article was called 1000. true fans. This is an article that inspired my book super fans, because my book was more of a how to, but this theory 1000 true fans imagine, as Kevin Kelly, and I define super fans are true fans. This is like the person who if you're a magician, right? They're going to drive eight hours to hear you and then they're going to wait backstage to get a selfie with you. Like that's a superfan right? Somebody who if you're a blogger, they're legit waking up in the morning, and the first thing they do is they read your blog post. If you come out with a product, they don't even care what's on the sales page. They're buying it already. That's a superfan. Right? Imagine if you just had 1000 of them 1000 true fans, if each of them were to support you with $100 a year that's less than $10 a month, and that's on the low end of what a superfan might pay for something, right? That's a six figure business right there. 1000 times 100 is six figures. And now consider 1000 true fans. It's like Huh, that's one fan a day for less than three years. And you think about putting into perspective, just what we're trying to build here, you we don't need to create the next blockbuster hit, we don't need to create the next fidget spinner or Uber or other name other company here. You just need to show up for those groups of people. And this is why the riches are in the niches my opinion.

Kate Kordsmeier 26:34

I love that too. Because I think so much of the online space. I'm sure social media and follower, you know, has a lot to do with that. But people act like it's a volume game. Whenever you play the volume game you're always going to lose. And podcasting has been in my experience too. I just such a better way to connect and get those superfans because of the reasons you said like, because we're spending, we're spending hours together, if they're listening to multiple episodes, and you're really getting to know a person so much better hearing them talk and, you know, getting their take on all different kinds of things, then you can and this coming from a blogger so

Pat Flynn 27:14

important, I think I mean, I I am a fan of a person using both. I don't want to just count blogging, but that's what got me on the map. And that's not anywhere near as dead yet. There's just other forms of content that you can inject into it. Your comment made me remember there was this woman, I can't remember her name or her account. But she had an Instagram account, she had like 2 million followers. And she shared a post that she was unable to sell more than like 27 t shirts to her audience of 2 million and how like devastating it wasn't how upset she was algorithms and stuff. And it's just like, you don't have a connection to your audience is the problem. Or you're just playing that volume game. Like you said, I know for example, one of another one of my students Phil, he has a podcast called scanner school, like handheld radio scanners. He has a podcast about handheld radio scanners. Yeah, talk about and talk about super niche, right? He has fans that show up to every live stream of his he knows their names. They know his he has companies reaching out to him to want to give him free stuff. He has just this aura in that space now because he just chose to show up. Right. And it's a smaller group for sure. He doesn't have 2 million followers. But I guarantee you you can sell more than 27 shirts with his smaller audience because he's created that connection.

Kate Kordsmeier 28:28

Yeah, for sure. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about blogging and podcasting. This is something I've actually been wanting to pick your brain about personally, so selfishly, your show for this. So when we started creating show notes for the podcast, I wanted to do it in more of a blog post format than typical podcasters usually do. And I, of course, I looked at what you were doing, and we use fuse box. And we've got lots of different tips and tricks that I could share. But I'm curious if how you find the overlap between blogging and podcasting, both in terms of like publishing your podcast on your website, and how how you best do that. And then you mentioned before to the SEO piece of podcast, SEO, you know of your searching on Apple podcast is I think what you meant, yeah, that that has some room for improvement. But what about SEO on on your website through Google when you're using your show notes like a blog post? Yeah, this

Pat Flynn 29:33

is why I always recommend publishing your podcast on your blog in an individual blog post per episode. So that your website SEO, in fact, is also helping grow your podcast. Yeah, cuz there's a couple things that are happening there. Number one, you obviously now your podcast lives on a blog post which Google can find and you do all your normal things that you should be doing with that blog post keywords in the title keywords in the description keywords in the first Paragraph so that all the spiders that crawl from Google, I hate spiders, by the way, but anyway, they they crawl through and they can read all those things and they'll display them properly. The I love your strategy of treating it like a blog post, because then whether or not a person is able to listen or not, they're still going to get value there. A lot of shownotes are just very surface level and are used to simply just sell clicking play. And that's okay, too. That's more of what we do. But the fact that matter is not everybody, not everybody might be able to listen at that very moment. And they can still read through and get excited, and then maybe Listen, and or maybe get everything they need, and still get value from what you have to offer. So you're offering multiple ways for people to consume your content, which is great. And of course, when you help people, you're also helping yourself, because Google notices that they see more time on site, they see you know, more pages viewed, all those kinds of things are signals for Google to now rank your website higher, certain pages higher, which of course, means more entry, potentially, into your podcast. So I love that strategy. The reason why I typically don't recommend it for people, right from the get go, is because podcasting is already super overwhelming to begin with that I want people to have the sort of least friction possible to get their publishing, going. But after that, if you can optimize or you have a team or something, then Oh, of course, like, absolutely, the better you can serve anybody, the more you will be rewarded. And that's just the general philosophy I have in life. And it works here on your blog, too. So I love that having a player on your website is key. But the cool thing about a podcast too, is you now have loads of text, potentially, with the words that you say with your voice, meeting a transcript. And I don't know where you're at with transcripts, a lot of people have different philosophies on transcripts, but we include our transcripts on our blog, also for SEO purposes. In fact, thank you for mentioning one of my company's fuse, we have a free plugin that you can use if you're a WordPress user to pop your transcript into WordPress, in an SEO friendly manner. And it doesn't like to take five miles to go down the whole transcript because it's a lot of words when you're talking. But it's in a nice little frame on your website. And that helps too. So the transcript is cool. I know some people who use the transcript, give it to a team member to then go straight a blog post from the transcript, which is pretty cool. I know some people who take parts of the transcript and in fact, put it in a book, and then sell it into Amazon as an Amazon book. That's pretty, that's pretty common too, because you have that text. There's just a lot of fun things you can do. Because now with audio, you have audio and text to go along with it. And then now there's there's this whole movement of video podcasts. Now you can add a video component to your show. Like imagine if you were watching myself in K talk right now, like, in many cases, you would maybe be interested in that. But in many cases, maybe not. I mean, because this is mainly a conversation, you got to think about people's behavior on YouTube, right? People aren't going to sit there normally. And watch, you know, 15 minutes of just two people talking unless you're Joe Rogan, or some celebrity talking to Elon Musk, or something. So my strategy with video is if you happen to capture the video, you might as well capture it if you can, it's it's not required. But if you have it, and I've done this a couple times when I've had like bigger names on the show, I capture the video, and I don't pop it onto YouTube in full, I take little mini clips from it like that six minute moment in the middle that was like perfect about a particular topic. Because that can then be optimized for search on YouTube. I can even embed that video into a separate blog post. Imagine a separate blog post about that six minute little component about I don't know how to refinance the mortgage on your home. And then I optimize that for how to refinance your mortgage on your home. And on YouTube. That's the name of the video on my blog. That's the name of the blog post. And guess what I embed there, the video, but guess what, also, I embed the full podcast, because that's also. So there's there's a lot of fun things that we can do now, but at the same time, I don't want you to feel overwhelmed, do what you can do. And don't try to stretch yourself. Then I remember I was in Australia at a blogging conference, Darren Rouse and problogger. And I was there just speaking, I was sitting in the audience, I was listening to somebody speak. And she was like, Hey, we're going to share our social media strategy for blog posts. And I was like, Okay, this is gonna be good. And then she shared her first point. And it was like, point nine font at the upper left hand corner. I was like, Oh, no, there's just going to be this giant list of all these things. And at the end, it was like 75 things to do after you publish a blog post and I was like, Oh my God, this isn't like I noticed everybody like looking around each other. Just like I have I have to do all this. No, you pick the few that work the best for you. That should always be the case. And I don't want you to feel like this conversation is that nine point font situation you can do what you can do.

Kate Kordsmeier 34:46

Yeah, and and you could just get started somewhere. I'm a big fan of just like just start by publishing an app, you know, publishing a podcast episode. And then from there, add things as you go once you get the hang of one thing. Okay, now I'm going to start doing blog posts. Okay, now I'm gonna start like, you don't have to do. You know, I think it's so easy to see the experts doing it one way and then feel like they started like this, like the perfect audio Graham's coming out with everything and you feel like that's what you have to do. But it isn't everybody was a beginner. And you just got to start somewhere.

Pat Flynn 35:21

You're so right, I remember going to New York, I have an invention. It's called the switch pod. And we were doing some press in New York. And I got to stop by VaynerMedia Gary Vaynerchuk office. He wasn't in that day. But I got to see some of his employees. And I was like, What do you guys do? Like what like, tell me like, what, what y'all do. And the first 20 people that were closest to Gary's door, they all were in charge of Gary's social media. All 20 of those people, they literally are the ones who create the post, who posts the posts. Gary doesn't do any of that. He has some say, obviously, but it made me go, Wow, everybody's trying to be like Gary, and trying to pump out nine pieces of content a day. You can't, because you don't have 20 people who full time are doing that for you. It makes sense for Gary as a social media manager to do this kind of stuff. But then we don't know the full story, right? And sometimes, especially on Instagram, it's like we're comparing our full life to somebody's highlight reel. And we don't know the full story often. And we got to be careful about that.

Kate Kordsmeier 36:22

Yeah, for sure. People always I'm sure you get this a lot too. How do you do it all? And I go, Well, I don't I have I don't I don't do it all at all. I have a team I have helped at my house. I you know, like I have a supportive partner. There's, there's no just like, Oh, it's me doing all the things. So good point. So when it comes to growing your podcast, this is something that I learned from you that was really successful for my podcast, and it was creating a podcast launch team. So can you tell us a little bit kind of the basics of what is a podcast launch

Pat Flynn 36:58

team? Yeah, and you can use this strategy for launching anything really an online course I've used it for my books as well to help with the day it goes live to help bring even more noise. So essentially, ahead of time, maybe a month or two, if you have that, maybe even a couple weeks, if you're strapped for time, I would essentially recruit people in your audience who may be interested in getting a behind the scenes early access, look at your podcast, in exchange for number one, feedback is important. You want that feedback, so that you can improve your show over time. Number two, letting people in on the process is such a cool way to build superfans, like they feel special being a part of this with you. And that's the important thing here. You're making people feel like they belong to the brand, and that they're a part of it, they and then they get behind it, they start rooting for it. And as a result of this, in exchange for getting access to this thing, maybe episode one early, or interview that you've done with somebody that you haven't quite edited yet, but you're like, Hey, guys, I'm going to give you the raw files, like how cool is that? For you to have access to that. But in exchange, you asked for a review, on the day it comes out, you perhaps ask people to share a special page that is a landing page or something where you want to direct people toward, and you just have them help you make some noise on that day. That way. And the reviews are really key to they take some time to post and of course, any reviews are only shown in there in the country that they were given in. So just keep that in mind in case people say they did give you a review, but you don't see it. They might be in the UK or something. But the beauty of this is now that you're making noise to the rest of your audience, and they're making noise to anybody new who comes in will see that your show is not a ghost town, there are people already listening. there's already some noise about it. There's already some positive feedback that's coming in. And reviews are really key in podcasting. We don't necessarily have blog posts or blog reviews. But there are podcasts reviews and podcasts reviews, because there's a directory like Apple podcasts where people go and they go, Hmm, should I listen to this or not very similar to when you buy something on Amazon? What do you do you look at the reviews, because you just want to make sure that this purchase is worth it. Similar to Hey, I want to make sure this time about to spend and invest into this podcast is worth it. So again, having your launch team people who kind of know you, they could be family friends, you can recruit people in your audience, you can make it an event, launch like an event. Bring some people behind it, you're gonna make a splash when you come out.

Kate Kordsmeier 39:17

Yeah, that was such a good module in your course. And and we did it and like I said, it worked really well for us. And people were so excited and supportive. And it made it so much more fun for me too, because now you feel like you actually do have this like team of people rooting you on. But I've been curious, you know, are my podcasts launched in April of 2020. So we're still pretty new. And I've been thinking about how to get like another boost of excitement around it. I'm curious if you've ever used the strategy after your initial launch months or even years later to help maybe revive or just get that boost again.

Pat Flynn 39:55

Absolutely. I would absolutely have a launch like event for an upcoming episode. Now, of course, we want all of our episodes to go big, right? But sometimes when you put a little bit more attention into just one of them, they will have all episodes go big for you and meaning like, you know, now there's more people on your podcast, people are starting to binge Listen, etc. So you could pick an upcoming milestone episode. For example, I don't know what episode this is that I'm listening to right now. But whatever number that is, maybe if there's a nice round number coming, and people often celebrate Episode 100, Episode 50, make a big deal about it run a little contest or giveaway, you know, you can do things like that to make it feel like an event, you can bring a team behind it to help push it out, you can utilize that same launch team to go Hey, guys, gals, thank you again, so much for the launch, we have a big upcoming milestone episode coming up. We want to mobilize the podcast again, you're totally welcome to do that. And oftentimes people are waiting for you to ask them to help because they enjoyed it so much the first time around. So again, early access to that milestone episode, all that in exchange for some help and some noise on that day. There's other ways to do you know, to get a boost, because sometimes you'll get into this pattern where it just feels like you know, on your stats, you're going to see an amazing spike every week when you come out. And this is amazing spike, we want to have that spike come down, but not as down as it was, before we will we always want to capture new listeners. The best way to grow your show right now is to be a guest on other people's podcast. And again, we're super meta here because I'm a guest on your show. And the cool thing is anybody listening to this right now, who may be interested in the Smart Passive Income podcast could literally just search up the Smart Passive Income podcast because your app is already open, right? For the most part. Think about that. Compared to like an ad. A lot of people ask me, Pat, can I How can I spend money, I have a advertising budget, I want to pay for ads to grow my show. I'm like, okay, but just imagine you're on Facebook, and you have to number one interrupt people from what they were originally doing. So you have to have really good copy really good ad management, number two, then they have to click on a link. And then where do you send them? Because what if they listen on Spotify, usually or on castbox? Or another place? Right? So what do we do from there, maybe give them a link tree or something right to direct them. Okay, that's another thing, we have to give them another place of friction, and then they get to your show, finally. And then they have to make a decision to click play. And then they have to make a decision to sit and listen enough to get convinced to then subscribe, there's so much friction. But here I am on your show, you are allowing me to share my voice. And again, I'm honored for that you are endorsing me in my show. And so that's just so much easier. So the best way to grow your show is to be a guest on another show. You know, like Seth said, podcasting is the new blogging, I say guest podcasting is the new guest blogging and that's, you know, it works well that way, and they're very evergreen. And people can hear your voice and your emotion. It's just there's there's no better way in my opinion. The other way to grow, your show that I found works really well is you know how in blogging, you can do roundup posts where you like collect an answer from one person from one blog, you connect an answer from another person, and then you put them all on the same page. Well, you can do that with a podcast. But instead of text, you do it with voice. And there's a really cool tool out there called speak pipe speak pipe comm where you can literally like, Kate, if I wanted to have you in a roundup episode that I'm going to do, I might ask you, what's the one thing you wish you knew before you started? You know, building your business online or something right? I'm going to ask that same question to all these different people. But I'm going to direct you Kate to And when you go there, you'll see a button it literally says record. So you record your answer. And I get it as an mp3, that I could just pop into that episode. And now this episode number one, this is super easy for creators to do. Right? So like I get featured on the show, I just have to offer one answer, of course. So you're more likely to say yes, number one. Number two, the episode I want like your answer, Kate and then I want to pop in and then I'm going to get you know Darren's answer, then I'm going to pop in I want to be the glue between everybody because this then positions me as an authority, like a glue the one who collected and did the listeners the favor by bringing all this amazing content together. Number three, it is an amazing piece of content to hear from all these different creators, their version of this answer. And number four, what do you think the likelihood that you being featured on that show are going to share it with your people? It's very likely, especially if you start targeting people who don't normally get featured. Like for example, imagine an admin of a Facebook group who has this community who doesn't often get a voice. Well, our podcasts much like our blogs are assets that we can use to put a spotlight on other people. And when you do that, people are going to share it. Of course, the Facebook group owner is going to share it with their group because it makes them look good. I've given them the stage a little bit. Right. And so this is this is some of my students are just using that one tactic alone, just interviewing forum group owners and just targeting their keyword all over Facebook, Instagram and also LinkedIn and they're getting 10s of thousands of new listeners. every single month as a result of just that one strategy alone.

Kate Kordsmeier 45:03

Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned that. And we have Episode 29 of our podcast was all about how to be a guest on podcast and create that visibility. So if you are listening now, when you're done with this episode, go back to Episode 29. And listen to that for more advice on how to get those guest spots. So when it comes to getting people, so let's say you have people on your show, you said, Of course they're going to share it because it makes them look better. And I would think that would be the case. But I have found that sometimes people still do not share when they are guests, whether it's on my own show, or I just have friends that I know we're on a podcast and then it comes out and then like you never talked about it, why not? Have you run into that issue at all or people just always really Jonesy to to share? No,

Pat Flynn 45:53

I would say for most people, they won't share it without a little bit of help. Some people just won't share it at all. Like for example, if I were to ask Tim Ferriss to share Episode 51 of the podcasts on the SBI podcast because he was a guest, it's very hard for me to convince somebody who's getting so much attention and likely has a social media manager and whatnot to share it. So I can't expect that I could ask, it doesn't hurt to ask. But I can't expect that all the time. When we target people like group owners on LinkedIn and Facebook, that's actually what's giving me the highest percentage of people who share it because they already have a very clear platform that they're already trying to grow and be an authority on. And they need some help. And then guess what I've given them that help with the podcast spot, so they're more likely to share their because of that reason, another podcaster. You know, it may or may not work, it may or may not happen. But stuff that I like to do is number one, if I have a person who's a guest on my show, oftentimes I will send them a message on Instagram, this is my favorite place to do this. I send them a direct message on Instagram with a video. The video just basically says, Hey, thank you so much for being a guest on the show. The episode just came out today, I'm going to email you and send a message here with a link in case you'd like to share it if you would, that would be super helpful. But if not, no worries. And honestly that little personalized Video Interaction works. So well. I know some people who hand this off to like an assistant or something. And that can work just kind of to keep that workflow going. But sometimes you need to do things that aren't scalable, like the personalization, sometimes in manners like this, and dancing. I mean, you're not going to get 100% all the time. But those things can help a little bit.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:34

Yeah, I love this. Sometimes you need to do things that aren't scalable, because I feel like you know, scale is obviously the one of the biggest buzzwords in online business right now. And but there is something that you have to remember about that personalization. And that true genuine connection and, and building that relationship with people too. I mean, I think if you have somebody on your show, and you want to have build a real friendship or relationship with them, you're much more likely to do that when you personally are reaching out rather than just having your assistant email their assistant.

Pat Flynn 48:10

Hundred percent. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 48:12

So I have a couple lightning round questions that we ask everybody. But before we fully wrap up, I just want to see if there's anything else about podcasting that we didn't talk about today that you feel like people really need to know if they're interested in starting their own podcast, or maybe they already have one and are looking to grow it.

Pat Flynn 48:30

If you're thinking about starting one, or even if you've started one already, the best advice I can offer you is to plan ahead. The last thing that I want you to do is experienced what's called pod fade, which is typically around episode seven. You've been so excited about podcasting beforehand, but now it's starting to feel a little bit like a chore. And every time you hit publish, this happened to me, I almost gave up on my show. Because of this, I would hit Publish. And I would actually hesitate to do it because I knew as soon as I hit publish, that meant I had to figure out what next week episode was going to be about. And I have to go through the whole thing again. Right. And we don't want to be in that content hamster wheel. Like I know we've all felt with blogging, the same thing happens in podcasting, too. So planning ahead in terms of your editorial calendar is really key. batch processing, the creation of your episodes is key, try to get to one at a time and just kind of make space on a certain day of the week to try to crank out a few maybe use like for me Tuesday's my recording day, Tuesdays, that's when I record podcast episodes. That's when I try to schedule guests. That's when we try to schedule me on other shows. Sometimes that's not always able to work out for example, today is Friday, and that's okay. But for the most part, I try to make that happen so that I can have more control over my calendar, my time and my energy. And what's really cool is when I wake up on Tuesday, I know that that podcasting day so I can get excited about it. And then of course because I'm planning ahead and I'm even batch processing, I maybe if I'm not feeling it, you know what, I don't have to force it, I don't have to worry about that impeding deadline for next week, because hey, we were already four episodes ahead. And so now this week, I'm going to take off, and I'm going to come back even stronger the next week and crank out an additional one. And that's kind of how we roll. That's how it helps. If you're just starting out. A good exercise, if you have a topic in mind, would be to try to write down 25 different episode ideas, or guests that you could potentially have on the show, you don't necessarily need to know the exact title of that Show episode. But if you can't get to 25, or even 10, then you should probably question whether or not this is something you could keep going for, if you get to Episode 10. And you might hit a brick wall. So just like a little bit of planning ahead of time can go a very long way. And then finally, again, it's all about the connections. Use your podcast to not just try to get celebrities and a listers on your show. I mean, that's really great when that happens. But you should also be using your podcast to put a spotlight on your own students and your own readers and your own customers. I did an episode it was Episode 275 of the Smart Passive Income podcast. And when I was launching power of podcasting, I plan this episode to go live that same week, I invited three of my beta students from my course beta students being people who took it early similar to like the launch team. And they came on and I asked them to tell me their story. I didn't ask them to come on and tell me why my course was awesome. Because I knew if I could unpack that story, that would just be the case anyway. So I asked, for example, a woman over 16 named Dr. B. Why did you want to start a podcast? And she told a story about ADHD. And she wanted to help others with it too. So she wanted to create her ADHD related podcast and I said, Well, what were the biggest challenges? What were the biggest struggles for you? Oh, my gosh, Pat, like I'm 60 I'm so scared of technology, the duhigg I don't even know where to click my mouse. Sometimes it's so hard. And then I go, Okay, well, what has happened since starting your show? Oh, my gosh, I, every time I get a new country that I'm in, I put a little pain on a map that's in front of my computer. I love it so much. I'm having so much fun. Well, how many countries are you in? She said she's in 33 countries. And her being able to know that she's affecting lives all around the world now makes everybody listening. Who's also afraid of technology go whoa. Okay. If Dr. B can do this, then I guess I can do it too. And of course, Dr. B, and everybody else were featured on the show was like What was your course but it was so easy. Thank you for making it easy for me. I didn't ask them to say that. They just say that. And this becomes the most genuine testimonial that and I even had people during that launch week. That launch earned over $250,000 and 150 k came as a direct result of that show. Like we track the link from it, which is insane. I even had people email me and say hey, you better think Dr. B because she's the one that sold me into your course. And so as much as we want to have a listers on our show, invite your students on because we need to play guide, we are not the center of attention all the time, we can be the Yoda, we need to feature the Luke Skywalkers. Right. If you've ever heard of Donald Miller and story brand, this is what it's about your audience is the hero of the story. You are the guy that everybody wants to be with to become the hero. You are not the hero.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:13

I love that. Oh, that's so good. I much to my husband's chagrin have never actually seen Star Wars. But I think I kind of understand the reference. Cool. Okay, well, thank you so much for being on Pat. Like I said, we have a quick lightning round that we'll go through. And you'll have to tell everybody where they can find you and take your course and all that good stuff. So to start us up, what is your favorite way to make time for self care while running your business?

Pat Flynn 53:43

So I practice what's called the Miracle Morning. Miracle Morning is a book by a man named Hal Elrod. And in the morning with whatever time you have, I spend typically about 30 minutes, wake up before the kids get up. And I work on myself. I don't want to have the alarm go off to immediately have me go do something for somebody else because I need to take care of myself first. If I can't take care of myself, then I can't take care of others too. So in the morning, I do how Elrod savers. So silence, which is meditation, affirmations, visualizations, a little bit of exercise I get on the rowing machine for maybe 10 minutes, I do a little bit of reading as well. And then I do scribing. So savers scribing meaning journaling, I use the Five Minute Journal, to in the morning, write down the three things that I'm grateful for. My family usually shows up in them every single day in some way. And then at the end of the day, I can finish off the five minute journal entry for that day with the three amazing things that happened today. And the one thing I wish I can improve on. That's basically at 30 minutes in the morning, a little bit of five minute journaling to finish off the day to sandwich my day with thought about what I can do better and what I'm grateful for and just to kind of be able to wake up with positivity hopefully.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:53

Yeah, that's so beautiful. I that book has been on my like Kindle wish list for years. So now that you just Send them, I'm gonna read it. How about a tool or strategy used to help with time management?

Pat Flynn 55:06

You know, I gotta say, there's a lot of tools out there, obviously, that help. And I think different tools work for different people like certain diets work for certain people. But for me, honestly, the best and most powerful tool that I use is my is literally the calendar, I schedule my time. If it doesn't get scheduled, it doesn't get done. And guess what I also schedule time with my family. And it might sound weird, like, Oh, you have to, you're so busy that you have to schedule time with your family. No, I am. So wanting to make sure that when I'm with my family, I'm fully present with them. And nothing else can get in the way that I literally have in my calendar, a giant block of time, at certain moments of the day, every single day, to be fully with them. And that helps me clock out. So I can clock in with them. And little strategies like that have worked for me, for sure. And you know, 98% of the time I get it right. But having it on there helps guide me in the right direction.

Kate Kordsmeier 55:59

I love that like reframe of that thought to have it I mean, it's mindset so powerful. I remember read maybe a couple years ago, or I think actually I was watching a YouTube video of yours, where you were on a mission to read like 100 books in a year or something. I can't remember the exact details, like scheduled time and for the entire family to read at certain times of the day. And you kind of

Pat Flynn 56:21

do that. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 56:22

I loved that I was my kids are really little I got a five month old and a two year old, but I'm like as soon as they can. I'm gonna steal that that was so good. Cool. Yeah, no worries. Yeah. Okay, we've talked about a couple other books so far. But do you have a favorite business or mindset book that you've read lately, or just when you go back to again, and again,

Pat Flynn 56:43

my all time favorite and the most impactful business book I've ever read. How's that for a hook? Is, is a book by an author named Michael bungay stanier. And it's called the coaching habit. And this is a very thin book. But it's extremely powerful. It teaches you the seven questions that you should be asking, and thinking about when you're coaching anybody. So whether you are a business coach trying to help your audience, or you are a parent, coaching your kids, it really helps you understand that there's there's a few things happening number one, that we often fall into what's called the advice trap, where if a person asks for help, sometimes the best help is not actually giving them the advice. It's allowing them to discover it themselves. And that's through a series of questions that you can ask. And oftentimes, it's that first question that's very surface level, the problem is usually layers deep. And these questions will help you uncover that. And I use a lot of these same strategies with the kids. And it's really interesting because I as a parent, no, like, what I want my kids to sort of do, or how to how to behave in certain situations, but almost like getting the kids to cook their own food makes them eat to eat more of their greens, it's like if they can discover that answer for themselves, I'm just guiding them through these questions to get to that answer. They're gonna it's almost like conception. It's like, Oh, that was my idea. Yeah, your idea to clean up the room? Totally, totally.

Kate Kordsmeier 58:07

I love it. It's like kind of manipulation.

Pat Flynn 58:12

I mean, manipulation is an interesting word. A lot of people feel salesmen and women are manipulative. And on one hand, that is, that is true. And there's a lot of snake oil salesmen out there for sure, who use words to just make money. But at the same time, in a way, what I've learned about selling is selling is service sale selling, you can sell and serve at the same time. And sometimes we need to not manipulate but we need to help a person understand that they need to invest in themselves in order to better help themselves. And it's just, again, mindset, like you said, right? And these powers, they can be used for good and they can be used for evil, and I only want to hang out and help people who want to use these for good. So I think I'm in the right spot.

Kate Kordsmeier 58:53

Yes, definitely. Okay, you

Pat Flynn 58:55

mentioned that part of your savors practice in the morning as an affirmation it What's an affirmation? You're using these days? an affirmation that I mean it changes every day, I think of something that I want to be and say to myself today, being Friday is I am somebody who has the What did I say this morning, I wrote it down somewhere. It's upstairs. I have the ability to turn my brain off from work. That was my affirmation today. And it being Friday I was I'm sort of preparing myself for the weekend a little bit. But I often as an entrepreneur, especially I'm just always thinking about new things. But now seeing this I do have that ability to turn it off and and be present and breathe a little bit. And sometimes I just go autopilot and I go crazy, where it's important for me to think about that every once in a while. So that was today's affirmation.

Kate Kordsmeier 59:45

That's a good one. I need that one as well. All the podcast my podcast is called Success with Soul. I'm curious what Success with Soul means to you.

Pat Flynn 59:56

Soul to me means connection. It means personality. It means The ability for one to connect with you. And being fully yourself. I think we are all unique souls. And as such because we're online, we need to express who we are completely. We need to be our fully weird self. That's what I like to say. You know, my son came home from school one day, and he said that he was upset because his friend or he thought he was his friend called him weird. He was like crying. And I said, Well, guess what? You are weird. And he was like, What? And I was like, well, you're weird. Your sister's weird. Your mom's weird. Don't tell her. I said that. And I'm weird. Or that's what makes us special. That's what makes us unique. I want you to be weird. I don't want you to be like anybody else. That's what makes you County, who's my son's name. My daughter's name is Chi Kalani. And he got it. He understood that being weird. And being himself is totally cool. And I think oftentimes online especially, we try to strive for success by trying to be like somebody else. And it's, it's okay to get inspired by others. For sure. I mean, please get inspired, find that motivation. But when you start to either copy or imitate or envy, others, then that's where it can start to hurt you. So use that motivation, but put your own style in there. be fully yourself and just be weird.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:01:11

I love it. So good. Pat, where can everybody find you?

Pat Flynn 1:01:15

So if you would like to try to listen to the podcast after listening to Episode 29 of yours, I would go I would go to Smart Passive income or just look up Pat Flynn. I'm also doing a lot on YouTube. But if you'd like to get to know me a little bit more at Pat Flynn, on most social media channels is where you want to check out. Thanks so much, pat the cake. Appreciate it. Thanks, everybody.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:01:43

Well, there you have it. podcasting is one of the best ways to build an audience, connect with others in meaningful ways and grow your brand even from scratch. So if you're excited about the possibility of starting your own podcast and want to learn from the best, I highly recommend Pat's course power up podcasting. If you go to, you can join and we have a special bonus for all of our listeners. So head over to to get that special freebie now.

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