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015: How to Write Email Marketing Campaigns that Convert with Tarzan Kay

Struggling to write email marketing campaigns that convert? We’re teaching you tested strategies and actionable tips that will get your email subscribers to open your emails, engage with your content, and ultimately buy your product or service! Get ready for lots of new ideas from one of the best copywriters in digital marketing. 

Does email marketing make your head spin?

Whether you’re a newbie at online business or you’ve been around for a few years, email marketing can be super intimidating.

However, it’s something you NEED to figure out and prioritize because email is by far your #1 most critical element if you have any type of online business (or really, a business of ANY kind)!

Email is your route to communicate DIRECTLY with your audience. Unlike social media, my message always comes right to you.

Without email, it’s virtually impossible to succeed as an online business.

But what do you even say? How do you convert a subscriber into a sale? How often should you send emails? How do you keep your content interesting and inspire people to read it, instead of it being a major snoozefest that makes your subscribers never want to open another email from you again?

Email marketing campaign tips

The secret is that there is actually a formula you can follow to increase the effectiveness of your copywriting–all while humanizing people to be more than just a ‘lead’ or a ‘subscriber’.

If you understand why you’re writing what you’re writing and who you’re writing to, it will not only cut down on the time it takes you to write (goodbye staring at a blank page!), but your results will be infinitely better then shooting in the dark when it comes to building community and conversions (hello income and impact!).

For example, one of the tips we’ll be sharing with you today is how to use a color-coded personality system to not only create diversity and variance in your emails, but to speak directly to different personality types so everyone on your list feels seen and understood. This system is GOLD!

So if you’re looking for email strategies and tips, this episode is for you!

How to Write Email Marketing campaigns that convert.

My guest today is Tarzan Kay, a launch strategist and copywriter who teaches women (and a few good men) how to sell bigger, so they can serve bigger. Tarzan is a master of email marketing and former copywriter-for-hire (for people like Amy Porterfield!) who specializes in fun-to-read, more-addictive-than-Game-of-Thrones email copy. She also helps freelancers attract better clients who’ll reach deeper into their pockets to pay for top-quality services–also using the power of email, duh!

In a previous life, Tarzan was a music major and–like so many copywriters–did a 3-year stint in law school, en français! She found her way to the online space through blogging and social media (“Whassup, overdue credit card bills and low-paying clients!”).

When T-Money’s not in “Mob boss mode,” she likes to take mid-day dunks in the pool (even at frigid temperatures), stage backyard episodes of Ultimate Beastmaster, and sing show tunes in the shower. Tarzan lives in Niagara with her partner and two kiddos.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

  • Why being the best and making all the money isn’t the most important thing for your business
  • What it’s like to be the primary breadwinner for your family as a woman living in a patriarchal society while your partner is a stay-at-home-dad
  • The 2 key things Tarzan did to earn over $200k in just her second year of business
  • How to write effective emails that convert using Tarzan’s approach to color-coded personality (based on the DiSC personality assessment–and we even use some Game of Thrones characters to make it more interesting!)
  • How many emails should you send during a launch? Plus the importance of pre-launch emails, her unique ’29-minutes-til-close’ email, and the post-promotion survey

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Also, please leave an honest review for The Success with Soul Podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can improve and better serve you in the future. Plus, you could be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and I read each and every one of them.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts to get automatic updates. My goal for this podcast is to inspire those who seek flexibility and freedom in their lives by making something happen with holistic, soulful, step-by-step strategies from me and other experts.

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Kate Kordsmeier 0:00

We're back with the Success with Soul podcast. It is Episode 15 and I'm your host Kate Kordsmeier. Today we are chatting with one of my good friends. She's my accountability buddy. I met her and my incredible mastermind Her name is Tarzan Kay you have probably heard of Tarzan because she is like the ultimate email marketing guru. She is a launch strategist and copywriter who teaches women and a few good men how to sell bigger so they can serve bigger. Tarzan has spoken on some big stages. She's had some big name clients and she is just a big freaking deal. So I'm so excited to share her with you today. We are talking about some really important stuff like why being the best and making all the money isn't the most important thing for your business. What it's like to be the primary breadwinner for your family as a woman living in a patriarchal society while your partner is a stay at home dad. And the two key things Tarzan did to earn over $200,000 in just her second year of business. And then of course, we're getting into emails. So how to write effective emails that convert we're going to talk about Tarzan's approach to color coded personality copywriting it's kind of a take on the disc assessment and Tarzan's even got some Game of Thrones characters to make it more interesting. And then we're getting into launching how many emails should you send during a launch what is about the importance of pre launch emails, the 29 minutes till close email and the post promotion survey. So stay tuned. This episode is so good, and I know you're gonna get so much out of it. Let's do it. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier x journalist turned CEO of a multi six figure blog in online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts thousands and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful, step by step strategies from Kaden, other experts, you're in the right place. here's your host, writer, educator, Mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm and sushi connoisseur Kate Kordsmeier. Before we jump into today's episode, I'd love to share another listener spotlight with y'all. This one comes from Cory at home who says soul filled advice with heart also recently become aware of who Kate is thanks to Dan and mouse staff of boss moms. And I was instantly hooked. I love her honest approach and how relatable she is throughout all of her outreach blog. And now this podcast, hearing her own struggles and how she's overcome these things is amazing. I absolutely love the intuition pieces as an INFJ. Who borders on INTJ Thank you so much, Cory, for sharing this with me. I am also someone who is an INTJ, bordering on infj. So you're a girl after my own heart. The fact that you took the time to leave your honest feedback means the world to me. In fact, if you're listening now please send me a DM on Instagram at Kate Kordsmeier. As I've got a special surprise gift I'd like to share with you as a thank you. And if you'd like to be featured in a future listener spotlight, head on over to iTunes Apple podcasts to leave a review Your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally. But beyond that the reviews help with rankings, which helps others find the show and allows me to keep providing you with free content every single week. I hope to feature you on a listener spotlight soon. Tarzan, thank you so much for being here.

Tarzan Kay 4:24

Hey, Kate, I am happy to be here.

Kate Kordsmeier 4:25

Yeah, I feel like I have to start my husband in particular when I came back from our mastermind retreat, and I was telling him about all the women and I just said your name like it was any other name and he's like, wait, stop. Her name is Tarzan and he wants to know the story. So I figure that you I'm sure you get asked it all the time.

Tarzan Kay 4:50

But, but I do but it's great that you didn't think anything of it because initially when I changed my name to Tarzan and I'll tell you that story in a second. I had to like do a lot of convincing people because I couldn't. Like I wasn't fully owning it yet. So people had a lot of questions. And but you know, I don't recall anyone at our mastermind retreat asking me anything about being Tarzan, because I am fully Tarzan now. Yeah, but I'm sure like to a stranger being like, Who is this? Tarzan? Of course, there's questions. And that was a huge part of it. So I'm gonna say like, Oh gosh, how long have I been Tarzan, like seven years or something. I was like, ready to change my name. I had this book coming out. And there was an author whose name was Amy nap. That was my old name. And she sold these Christian family planners. And I was like, I don't think I want to compete with her like, anyway, I was ready for a new name. My mom had changed her name. So I sort of was open to the idea that that was possible. And that was an option for me. And I had no idea how powerful it was going to be. I just thought I just need a new name like this will be fun. I'm done being a me. So this name came to me, Tarzan, and I was like, This is weird, but I know it's my name. And so I started telling people, this is my new name. And people thought it was weird. And they had to like I had to explain it a lot. And it was like, I'm really fortunate that my family, you know, my mom had changed her name and I just have like a really cool family and they were like, okay, you want to be called Tarzan? We'll call it tourism. And it really changed the way that I show up in the world because when I was aiming, I could be quiet and I could blend into the background. And I can't do that as Tarzan. So it really forced me to show up with a lot more confidence and be fully myself. And I did kind of become a different person. I mean, not different. I'm still the same person. But you know, I it's like I grew up. Yeah, Tarzan.

Kate Kordsmeier 6:54

That's so cool. I don't think I ever actually knew that story. And so did you. Consider Like just having a pen name, but keeping your regular name in real life or it was always going to be all or nothing.

Tarzan Kay 7:07

Yeah, it's actually so annoying to have like a name that people call you and then an actual name because like, you go to the bank or you go to like, you know that there's like all these people that start calling you by your old name, like it's hard to fully, you, you actually still have to be both. And I want to keep the old name I wanted to fully transition. And it's actually not that big of a deal to legally change your name. Like there's a lot of paperwork because you have to change your license and health card and like all your everything that has your name on it, which is a lot of freaking stuff. But you know, it's like a bunch of paperwork that you get notarized and it costs $135 and you get a new birth certificate. It's not difficult.

Kate Kordsmeier 7:51

Okay, interesting. Yeah, I mean, I experienced some of that when I got married and took my husband's last name, and at the time, I was a journalist, and so on. I felt like I had built this whole career around my name being Kate Param, which is my maiden name. And then to take my husband's last name, to then just be Oh, now I'm Kate Kordsmeier I was like, nobody's gonna know that those are the same people. So for like two years, I think I was Kate Kordsmeier which of course is such a mouthful. And and then eventually I dropped the Param. But it was it was tough having those two names, and then even just and that was just the last name, but it was like, restaurant reservations and people you know, like, nobody ever knew who I was. It was so confusing.

Tarzan Kay 8:38

Yeah, I agree. I think you just have to go all the way. And the other thing. Like I my Google ranking is awesome. Like, I didn't Yeah, he was anyone there's only one Tarzan, Kay. And I remember like, my book publisher was like, I don't maybe you want to try like tarzana because Tarzan's like kind of taken and I don't know What your Google ranking will be? And I was like, no, it's Tarzan. That's what my name is gonna be. And I've always like from day one if you google Tarzan, Kay, like, there's three pages of me, and no one. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 9:10

that's awesome. So while we're on the subject of your story, tell us just the, you know, kind of cliche question here of how did you become this email marketing guru that you are today.

Tarzan Kay 9:25

So I started out in 2016, as a copywriter, and I didn't really start in 2016. But I started for serious in 2016. Like before that I dabbled in freelancing, but in 2016, I was like, Okay, I am going to support my family, my husband's going to stay home with baby. And I'm going to provide for the family, which I'd never even been able to provide for myself, like this was a huge stretch, but I felt like I could do it. And it really helped that my husband, we weren't married at the time, my partner, he really believed that I could do it. So I went out and I did it. And I took a lot of programs and I used started getting clients right away because joining programs is a great way to meet people and connect with other online entrepreneurs. So I was working as a copywriter. And right away I neish down to working on courses like writing sales pages and emails. And I did right though, like I wrote, continue to write sales pages for a couple of years, but mostly focused on email, and most of my marketing. You know, when I was speaking publicly, like I really focused on email so that I could be known as the email expert. And then in the past year, like the past two years, I have fully transitioned from being 100% client based business like serving clients and writing their emails to being about 95% core space. So I still do take the occasional Private Client like I have one right now and no intentions of taking any more, but I sell almost 100% courses. I have my own, like my signature course, which is called email stars. It's about email marketing. And then I also do some affiliate marketing for like a few different people. I have two big promotions that I do. Yeah. So.

Kate Kordsmeier 11:12

So when you started with your client work, how were you able to so quickly land these, like huge clients like Amy Porterfield

Tarzan Kay 11:21

is, so it's so funny. Everyone thinks that because I had Amy Porterfield that I must have had so many other huge clients. And I really didn't, I totally, um, most of my clients then and even now, actually, like they're not super high profile making millions. They're just normal people that are like trying to have their first six figure launch like that. So, but I will tell you how I want Amy. And that's like in my hand. It was in my second year of business that I might have even been my first year I think it was first Anyway, I'm now in year five. So the dates are getting a bit hazy, but let's say early stages of my business, I Did this copywriting email copywriting competition. And somehow I just knew that I could win. And one of the judges was Dr. Schwartz, who at the time was Amy's number one copywriter. People at that level usually have a bunch of copywriters, but I think maybe she just had right at the time anyway, he was so I won the competition. And then I started this wonderful friendship with rye. He's like a brilliant copywriter and smart person, just a good friend now. So we struck up this friendship and he said, you know, and I'm like, sort of moving on in my career doing different things like he's starting to sell his own courses. He wants to be writing for himself, and he said, you know, Amy's gonna need someone new and I think maybe you would be a great match and I was so excited. And it took click, it took a good eight months or something for that to actually for him to make the referral and for that to come to fruition, but it did and my partner's with Amy, I would call it like, initially, like, I used to write her newsletter emails. And one time I did a big funnel audit and she would bring these she still sometimes brings these fun projects to me. But I also like spoke on her stage, I promote her program. She's like, I'm one of her top affiliate partners that like being connected to her, just opened my world up in such a big way. And yeah, and it's one of the greatest blessings of being an influencer is that now I'm able to do this myself, because I have an audience who listens to me and trust me. But you know, one mention on a podcast is like all you need to get clients for like six months if you know how to leverage it. And I used to have this coach Ron, right. He's really smart guy, and he calls it riding the coattails and like riding the coattails of the people who are ahead of you, but also like there's lots of people riding my coattails, and I'm totally cool with that because I'm writing other people's coattails and we're all in it together.

Kate Kordsmeier 14:00

Yeah, I love that. That's so true. So okay, I want to back up because you said two things that really sparked my interest. And one is something that I feel like, is becoming more common but still is, you know, unusual. And that's that you're the breadwinner, and your husband is a stay at home dad. So tell me more about how you came to that decision with your partner and how that feels for both of you.

Tarzan Kay 14:30

So it's definitely been an evolution. And it hasn't always been like totally great, but it is great. Like it really works for us. So I think probably the most important thing, the most biggest reason it works is because he loves being with the kids. Like he's an awesome dad. He's fully present like he plays with them. If it were me, I'd be like trying to get stuff done and like I gotta get these dishes done. Like Leave me alone kids. He's made for sure. Yeah. He's like, fully present with them, like plays with them like he's making, he made an obstacle course for their those like electronic cars that they drive around with the remote control yesterday morning. Like, that's what he does. He's amazing. So when my son our son was just before his first birthday, I had barely worked at all I made like seven or $8,000 that year that my son in the year following his birth, I was trying to like do something and help out but I was also you know, had this little baby. Yeah. And he was like, initially, we were like, Okay, how about I work two days a week, and you work three days a week or something like that we had this like, initially, it was like, our work will switch off. But he realized like immediately that he actually just wanted to be with the kids. And I was like, Okay, great. I rented an office and just went all in. And you know, initially like how there's just like patriarchy does not support men. At home with children, right? Almost like it's shameful. And also, the world is not set up for men to take care of children. Like there's no there's not

Kate Kordsmeier 16:10

even like changing tables and men's rooms.

Tarzan Kay 16:12

It's complete bullshit. It's like that makes me so mad when I think about it. So that's hard. Like, that's really hard for him. I mean, it's hard for stay at home moms as well that the world does not acknowledge their work as valuable and equally important as like being the CEO of Walmart. And so, you know, it's on many fronts, there's like many challenges to be in that position. And I honor him so much for just like showing up so fully for that role and being so confident and really owning it. But it definitely took us both a couple years to get there. Because, like, he has to watch me and my business like, I'm constantly like, achieving things and like I'm winning and like someone's like I won this competition or like, get this big Famous client or like, you know, it's like constant applause. And people telling me I'm so great and making all this money and you know, being the rock star. And he's like he, you know, he also loves to be onstage He's like, naturally a great speaker is very charismatic, like, he would love to, you know, also experienced these kinds of things. So it's something that we had to work through. And also like, from a financial perspective, like, in the beginning, I used to always go to him when I was about to make an investment. And then I realize, like I needed to get his approval, even though like I never took family money to pay for business things. I always made sure all the bills were paid, including my business bills. And at some point, I just had to like release the need for permission and just be like, Okay, this is my business. I am responsible for providing for the family and I'm also responsible for making sure I have what I need to grow My business. So you know that there were a lot of hard conversations about money. And we both did a lot of work around that. But we're definitely in a really good place where we mutually trust each other. I still make mistakes. Like one time, I made a $10,000 donation without consulting him. And I realized that that was kind of a dick move. Like in even though it was in the name of my business, I just feel like I could have shared that with him. And I could have been like something great for him to feel good about to. Anyway, yeah, there's always new lessons for us to learn, but I just will say like, it's been a journey, and we've been at it for like four and a half years now. So it's a lot easier. But I know in the beginning for women who are trying to run a business, it's hard. It's especially if their husband doesn't see that they're their partner, whatever it is, male female doesn't see the vision as clearly as they do. Like that's hard.

Kate Kordsmeier 18:57

Because how quickly did you start making enough money to support your family full time?

Tarzan Kay 19:03

Well, I didn't have a choice like I had to we had $4,000 in the bank when I went to work and $4,000 was like, you know, including our debts and things were paying off. That was roughly one month worth of living expenses. Yeah. So like, I had to just like hustle and make it work. I have since realized that that is something that works for me like I'm good in like crisis mode. That's like, I just have access and make it happen. Some people are not some people need the safety net of like a job while they build their business. That's just not me. So right away, like in my first year in business, I made $60,000 and that felt like an astronomical sum because I'd never made anywhere close to that in my life. Like I'd never I, you know, the most I'd ever made prior to that year. And I was gonna say I was like 30, maybe 3130 I was 30 Most I'd ever made was $15,000. And that was like, I don't even know how that happened. And it only happened one time.

Kate Kordsmeier 20:08


Tarzan Kay 20:11

My business grew really fast. I made 60,000 in my first year, and then the next year I made 240,000. And then it just kept growing and growing.

Kate Kordsmeier 20:19

Wow. And do you attribute the big jump from 62 to 42? switching from client facing work to courses yourself? Or did that come later?

Tarzan Kay 20:30

No, because in that second, that was my second year in business and I was still doing, I was still doing client work almost at 100%. Like in my second year of business, I launched my first course and it was a total flop. Not a total flop like I made about $2,000 maybe. Okay, that might be before but no, yeah, I think after expenses I made about $2,000. And then then next time I launched like a workshop course and it made $10,000 and I was over the moon excited but still was only a fraction of my revenue. So I think there were a couple things that hugely moved the needle for me. One thing was in my first year, I hired a VA for 10 hours, 10 hours a month, for for $500 a month. I got 10 hours per month. And that was huge. And then also, I joined a mastermind and that was also like, gave me a layer of accountability. It gave me more connections. That was also really important. So those two moves were pretty big.

Kate Kordsmeier 21:34

and was like, I think most people are probably like 10 hours a month. How could that have really made made a difference?

Tarzan Kay 21:41

It made a huge difference. And also just side note, I still work with that same She's not my VA anymore. She's my online business manager and I have a full time assistant. But those 10 hours were enormous because I was no longer multitasking and the one of the biggest things that was just draining my time was answering email inquiries like creating invoices like all that little, you know, those little tasks. And my assistant, she wasn't my VA at the time. She wasn't sitting down and working for 10 hours, like she would do like 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there and track everything. So the amount of work she could get done in 10 hours was enormous. And sometimes I would go over my 10 hours. And that's actually like, I just kept increasing my package and increasing my package until I now I have like an unlimited retainer.

Kate Kordsmeier 22:37

Yeah, that's amazing. And how did you find the mastermind that you joined?

Tarzan Kay 22:43

It was really good. I joined a mastermind with a copywriter who I had known about in the space for a long time. Her name is Joanna Wiebe, and she has a business called copy hackers and it was a mastermind for copywriters and it was really well branded, it was called the $200,000 copywriter or something like that anyway, and I went in kind of I was like if I continue on the trajectory I'm on I'm sure I could make 100 Grand 100 grand Oh my god, that would be amazing 100,000 but if I have some help, I could probably make two. And so I was like I bought into the premise so deeply. I also just knew that it would be helpful to be connected to an influencer like that, and knowing her would like, give me some, like, I knew that she would probably introduce me to other people, and being connected to her would give me some cachet. And this is like riding the coattails except Yeah, $15,000 or something to be on her coattails?

It was totally it was completely, completely and totally worth it.

Kate Kordsmeier 23:50

Yeah. Well, and that's actually how you and I met is in a mastermind that we're currently in together now. And yeah, I mean, I think think there's something about specificity when it when it comes to lots of things in business, but even when choosing a mastermind, you know, I was looking at a bunch of different ones and I liked that. Kate Northrop's mastermind that were in that she had two different levels and one was for women who are making a certain amount in their business or more. And I feel like that just put us on such even though there's still a big difference sometimes between people at the lower end and the higher end in our group, but we all have these established businesses where we're not coming in and talking to like brand newbies. Yeah, made a big difference. And this is my first official mastermind, but I've been in other less official ones and smaller groups and stuff where I end up feeling like, I'm just teaching everybody or something like that.

Tarzan Kay 24:53

I totally and what I have learned from masterminds that I have been in and masterminds that I have Run because I've been in and out of many. And they're the price is actually really, really important because many beginners are willing to pay $10,000 and they will come up with $10,000 they'll make it work and not everyone will be able to make it work, people will drop out. But you know, $10,000 is not a very big leap. But $20,000 on the other hand, is like, I sort of feel like, at my stage of business, it's like, that has to be the minimum. Because, you know, we both got in this one for, you know, people with a different income bracket. So that's like one way of making sure you get a certain, you know, people that are at a similar stage is just like, if you're making less than 100 you go in this group more than 100 you go in this group, but the price also makes a really big difference because I've also seen in masterminds where the mastermind will be like I have seen this happen, I have really Life examples where the mastermind was like, Okay, if you're making 100,000 or more, then you join this group. But what happens is people that are like almost at 100,000, or they're like, I think I'll do that next year, they get in the group and it just is like it messes everything up. So the this is like a good lesson and pricing your services, like the way you price yourself totally does determine what sort of clients are going to come into your program and their level of dedication, like so many things.

Kate Kordsmeier 26:35

Which is another good point, I think just about masterminds in general is that of course, picking a mastermind leader and being aligned with them is super important. But what I've found is even more influential is who the other people in the group bar. And yeah, that i don't i don't think when I went into it that I realized it was going to be so much more about the other masterminds Members then it was about who was running it

Tarzan Kay 27:03

completely. I so agree with that. And like, I mean, if you're talking about someone one on one, like, you gotta be 100% on board with that person because they're the only person you're going to talk to. And right. And it is important for a mastermind to because like, that person is attracts a certain type of person. Right? Exactly. And I know like in our group that we're in, like, we're all very invested in the work of our leader because it's the work we all want to be doing. I think what's important about that is like, it means that we're all what's really important to us communally in the group is not how much money we make. It's how we work like that robot priority. It's like, it's sort of like we know, everyone's kind of got the basics of earning money figured out. It's like, I can earn 100 or 200 or 300, or even a million for some people, like I got that. But now what I really need to figure out to get to my next slide is like the how like,

Kate Kordsmeier 28:01


Tarzan Kay 28:03

All during all of that. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 28:06

Yeah, totally agree. I mean, and even just, you know, the types of homework assignments or reading or the questions that are posed and stuff obviously depends, like, if we were in some group that was all about, just hustle your ass off as hard as you can never think about anything else. It would be a very different dynamic. So of course, the leader matters a lot, but I think Yeah, the the group does even more. Yeah,

Tarzan Kay 28:35

pitch pitch. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 28:43

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Okay, so Well, let's shift gears a little bit because I know we got to talk about email. So you have a bunch of different email courses and some things that you're known for. I love the titles of your stuff like the non douchey way to sell with email. I first learned a view when I listened to you on Amy Porterfield podcast about Game of Thrones characters and how to like use them as who you're talking to in your emails. And then you also came up with something similar and I guess there's some overlap maybe so you can explain But the color coded copy system. So tell me a little bit about this and why personality types in your emails would even matter.

Tarzan Kay 30:11

Okay, so when it comes to email, like I send a lot of email a lot, like I email my list three times a week. And then also like, if you bought my programs, you might be getting other emails. And when I'm in a promotion, like I'm sending multiple emails every day, and for most people, the thought of sending that money emails really freaks them out. And actually, for most people, the thought of even just sending one newsletter email is like, Well, what I don't, I just don't know, blinking cursor. I'm scared. I'll see you next month email list. Okay, my friend Sage Polaris introduced she came and spoke at a mastermind retreat that I was hosting and part of her talk and it was like five minutes and I was like, This is so gold. I have to know everything about this. When she gave this color coded system for Writing sales pages. And she was like thinking about these four different personality types. And I was like, Oh my god, this is gold that explains like why my emails work so well. It was like something that I'd sort of been doing naturally but didn't know that I was doing so and then I dug deeper into it and sort of developed more of this system, specifically based on email. And then I was presenting about this color coded copy system at convert kits, annual event craft and commerce. ConvertKit is that email service provider like, you know, the software you use to send bulk emails. And I made this presentation and then someone came up to me after and was like, the system that you're talking about is disc, di sc. And it's a personality type system. And I was like, Oh my god, this is amazing. Now I can learn more about it. And I could Google and find more examples because I had just like, sort of associated each color with a game of thrones character and I was like, okay, so you think About denarius you write like this, you think about tyrian, you write like this, but not everyone watches Game of Thrones. So that doesn't always work. Anyway, this is a system. And the idea of thinking of these four personality types is so that your emails can have like, some variants and have a different tone and so that they don't all feel the same. They might even look different, for example, so I'll go through the four types. Yeah. So and I'll start with the D, which is red, D for disc and red for the color system. And the D personality type you could think of as denarius, D for denarius, super decisive, many entrepreneurs are reds, so you probably think everyone's red but that's not true. Actually, they're the lowest percentage, super fast decision makers like moves like a freight train wants everything yesterday is like often impatient doesn't listen to your explanations because they're already doing the thing. So denarius is an example if you think about how decisive as a leader she is. And or like Monica from friends. Yeah, I have some more. I have more examples. There's a blog post on my website with examples of lots of

Kate Kordsmeier 33:08

Yeah, I'm looking at it now you've got Simon cow Harry Potter. Yes. Like Yeah,

Tarzan Kay 33:15


Kate Kordsmeier 33:16

All the main characters and billions.

Tarzan Kay 33:19

Yes, yes, like very like dominating, but also leaders. So we just like like your emails to be really clear. I like when the emails are short and get straight to the point and I have to censor myself while I'm telling telling other people like cut this part make this shorter. Like the red and me that wants everything to be done yesterday, and I don't want to waste one moment. I'm like I prize efficiency so highly. So for the red so you can do some short emails that are very direct. I have something to sell. This is what it is. Click this link. This is the cost. Here's what will happen next Bye. So those emails are always going to work well. For reds, and next one yellows. The yellows are like the life of the party. They value fun and community laughter good times, like the yellows are the ones that are like always late to the party. We all have a friend like that, that you're like she's always late but you're like, Oh, I just I but the part is more fun when she's there. And yeah, sense of adventure. Like if you think about Tyrion from Game of Thrones, like he goes all the way to the wall just to like, see what that's about. I don't know what's going on there. I'm gonna check it out. Yellow in the friends example would be Joey, what else you got there for yellows?

Kate Kordsmeier 34:37

Yeah, I see Han Solo, Homer Simpson, Oprah. And Elaine bennis.

Tarzan Kay 34:44

Yeah, okay. And the other thing, Elaine's a great example. The other thing to remember is like we all have all of these traits within us. It's just about which one is dominant, which means like, even like You know, when you write an email that's going to appeal to a yellow. And what appeals to a yellow is like when you make something sound fun when you add a funny GIF, tell a funny story, like make me feel excited about what's coming. I'm also going to enjoy those two. I'm actually very high yellow. Also, I'm like very high read very high yellow.

Kate Kordsmeier 35:20

Is there like a path that you take somewhere to figure this out? Or you just kind of

Tarzan Kay 35:24

Yeah, totally, you can just google up disc assessment. Usually, you have to pay for it. You used to be able to do it free through Tony Robbins, but I think now It costs $10. But yeah, you could totally do a disc assessment. You could just read my blog post, and you're probably gonna know pretty easily, but it's really helpful. Like when I'm hiring a new employee, everyone does a disc assessment, because like for an administrative role, I want someone who's very high blue, and the blues are like Ross Geller, or who did I have in Game of Thrones, I had Samwell, who's like very studious. The blues are like super detail oriented. They ask a lot of questions they want to have it all figured out in their head before they sign up to anything. So they would love like a really meaty FAQ email. Those are the people that will read your entire sales page from the beginning to the end. And like remember three weeks later if you said you were going to do something, but you didn't do it like Tarzan, you said you're gonna offer us this special workshop, but you didn't do it. So you really do have to like, you know, you got to be on top of your shit for the greens because they're going to call ya. And they'll read your FAQ and then they'll hit reply and ask more questions. So wait, not the green sorry, the blue the blue though. Yeah, yeah, blues very detail oriented. Yeah. And then there are the greens and the greens are like more so if you think about friends Phoebe is very green. Phoebe, let's say. No, yeah, Jon Snow. The Greens are Going to respond to like your stories to like a real depth of emotion. They want to feel something like anything that feels, you know, like, I always cry at parades and national anthem, like, that's the green in me that's like so migraine. So we all have all four of these. But when you're thinking, like if you approach your emails and think about those four, and you're like, Okay, I'm going to write a really read email toward the end, like the cart close period, you've got to have that FAQ for the greens, but we were all going to see them and some part of me is going to recognize like, they also like, I also want to know all the details just because I'm like, read I often like, sometimes I make mistakes, because I just sign up for things without actually looking at the details.

Kate Kordsmeier 37:45

Right, got it. So it's not that you're trying to appeal to all four of these personality types in one email. You pick one personality type per email.

Tarzan Kay 37:57

Exactly. Yeah. If you try and appeal like sometimes As you, you could easily hit two or three like every good email should start with a story. And a funny story is going to appeal to the yellows. emotional story will appeal to the greens like, by default you're just you're going to reach more than one but you know if you just want to practice this just focus on one at a time.

Kate Kordsmeier 38:23

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So if you're in the middle of a launch, like let's say I have a seven day launch window for my course, how many emails generally speaking, would you send? If I guess maybe the better question then is if you're in the middle of a seven day launch, how many emails you send,

Tarzan Kay 40:18

okay, I'm just like pulling up my promotion for my last promotion. I usually start with a layout of a certain number of emails, but then as it's going on, I'm like adding in a whole lot of stuff. So I went, you know, like I plan them all out, like email, one email to email three. And then in the middle of my dock, there's like, email 1.5 email 4.1 4.2. So let me just tell you 14 1516 1718 1921 so in my last promotion, I said 21 emails, and that was just during the cart, open the eight day cart open face. But okay, you know, there was also a lot more emails to get them to all the pre launch content because actually, all right, a pre launch content is like, you know, those people that join the pre launch content are the most likely to buy, like, when I look at my list of buyers and the list of people that opted in to get the free content, like there are very few names like there are very few buyers who didn't watch the webinar or join the Facebook group or do any of that free stuff. So I do go really hard at the beginning. And you know, like if you're doing one webinar, like I would definitely send six to eight webinar invites for sure.

Kate Kordsmeier 41:43

And this is so interesting to me, because I know that most people's first response is like, that's way too many emails. So first, I'd love to know what your general open rate is. And then also do you get pushback from people being like, Oh my god, Stop emailing me.

Tarzan Kay 42:02

Yeah, for sure we do get pushback, I'm just opening up ConvertKit. So I can actually give you numbers. But Oh, great. People definitely say, Oh my god, stop emailing me, I do not feel bad at all, because I give them plenty of opportunity to opt out of the promotion. So you know, all the time, like in so many emails, I'll say like, if you're tired of hearing me talk about this program, click this link, you will stay on my email list, but I will not email you again. And we're thinking about testing in our next promotion to actually put that message in every single email to see if we can cut down on unsubscribes. But it looks like in general, I get about 60 people you know what these numbers actually don't like they're not going to tell you anything unless you know the whole story and know all my life. So I won't go into that unsubscribes but I will tell you that the last email that I sent in my promotion, I got a seven 17% open rate, and the first email. So the first email, like it goes down at the, you know, as the promotion. Yeah, you know, when you're sending a lot of emails, but so like, I'm just looking at one email here that had a 38% open rate, and then it goes down and it goes down. Also, anytime that I'm segmenting my email list, then I always get a much higher open rate. So let's say I know like, you know, let's say there's 10,000 people on my email list, but I know that 500 of them signed up to the webinar and also attended the webinar. When I send an email to those 500 people, I could get like a 50% open rate because those people are the most engaged. And also the email is the most specific so that's the whole point of segmentation is like so your emails can be very specific. I see you did this thing. Now. Here's the next thing.

Kate Kordsmeier 44:00

Write Exactly. And to your earlier point, just for whatever it's worth, we did do that in our January promotion for the six figure blog Academy after the first email, so we sent one email and then the rest of the emails all had an opt out at the very top saying, If six FBA is not right for you, but you still want to stay on my email list, click here, we won't email you about it again. And I do feel like that does cut down on unsubscribes. And, and we send generally, what I've done in the past, and I'm not saying this is what works. So I'd love to know your, what you would think about this is generally we send one email a day, and then on cart close, we send three. But I think you do a lot more than a lot more.

Tarzan Kay 44:51

Yeah, a lot more. And that used to be and that's actually what I teach in my program because I wouldn't recommend sending tons of emails until you're experienced at it. You know how to write great emails. So like as like a beginner like starting place, I would email every day and then send to the day before cart close and then three, the day of cart close. So that's always been how I've taught. I don't know, like thinking I might rerecord that module two like to teach people like what turbo charge emails look like if you want to send way more, but I send, just going to look at cart close day for this last promotion. Like typically I'll send about six and I did send six, but only four of those emails went to my whole lists. None of them went to Oh, no, pardon me, three of them went to everyone, excluding people that might be in like, you know, some sort of evergreen funnel or just join my list three days ago or something, right. Like I have sort of a segment of my list that's like these people are ready to be promoted to say that like all of those people got three emails. And then two emails. Were to people that appear to be super engaged, like they had clicked on a lot of stuff. And then one of those emails went to was just for freelancers. So I do have I do track who's who seems to be a copywriter or a freelancer, and then I can talk to them specifically as a service provider. Yeah. So for smart six, six on card close day, the day before, it looks like I sent three. I mean, Kate, you are definitely experienced enough that you could do more than that. But you just always want to know like, why do I want to eat? Why am I sending this email? Is it just because Tarzan told me to send six like, that's not a good reason, right? I'm like, I really plan it out. Like I like to send at least one email on cart close day. That's just a video. And it's really simple. And I always like to send something on cart clothes day that's like a fun, silly pattern interrupt that everyone will enjoy even if they have no interest in the product. And I like to send something to my Freelancer segment. So You know, I have like, a lot of points that I want to hit on cart close day, I always send an email. 29 minutes left, right before the cart closes. I'm saying, yeah, oh, yeah, that's a really good one. Because that's when like, almost every launch that I've done like, that's when the sales come in, like, in the last hour, it's like the most action. So yeah, to our send that 29 minutes left, and it can be really short, and you could put your video in there and just like a friendly message of courage. Yeah. And then you got it bless and release. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 47:34

Okay, so then, once you're done with the promotion, do you email people to ask them why they didn't buy?

Tarzan Kay 47:43

Um, well, that's definitely a best practice, but I don't always do it often. When I get to the end of a launch. I'm so tired. Yeah. And I just want to rest. So and I thank you for bringing that up. Because I just realized we did not send that out in our last promotion. We probably really should, we definitely should have. That is a really good, I'm just gonna make a note. Now to right ahead of time. Yeah. And usually I try and prepare as much as I can ahead of time, but especially right now, you know, like, it's April 22 2020, just for reference, you know, just everything that's happening, life feels so unpredictable. And so I wrote everything in my last promotion like, maximum 48 hours before, just because I wanted it to keep really fresh, but usually I write as much as possible in advance, but that why didn't you buy like that's a fairly standard email that you can just have pre loaded, but it also has to have a survey. So there's a bit of setup involved. Anyway, we never did that. And all ideally, it should go out like within a couple days of the cart closing because even now, I'm like, Oh, I should have done that. But you know, it's been like two weeks. It's not that fresh anymore. Like people forget, right? I get

Kate Kordsmeier 49:02

well, especially during this time, though, I think it would be interesting how many people what, whether it's real or not say because of COVID. And what's happening and how many people have a different reason for not buying?

Tarzan Kay 49:16

Yeah, I mean, I can just say like, anecdotally, I did, it was really hard to hear from a lot of people, like I was planning to buy this, but my partner lost their job, or I lost my job or whatever, you know, like my clients dried up, you know, there was a lot of that. And that was probably the hardest thing about the launch because you still have to hold the energy and be excited for people. Yeah, even though you're hearing constant bad news. But yeah, that sort of feedbacks. Not really that useful, because this doesn't help me with my 2021 promotion. But then, yeah, for the people who did really want to, I often phrased the question other than money. Why didn't you buy because it's Yeah, easy to do. Fall to like, I didn't buy because I can't afford it. It looks great. I don't have the money. Like that's like a go to excuse for any program. But if you move money from the equation, like why did I actually not like, you know, bend over backwards to find the $300 for my first payment?

Kate Kordsmeier 50:17

Right? Totally. That's such a good, good idea. I'm going to use that. I love that. Okay, well, I know we're coming up on the end here. So we always finish with a little quick lightning round of questions. So first thing that comes to your head, don't overthink it. What is your favorite way to make time for self care while running your own business?

Tarzan Kay 50:39

favorite way to make time for self self care. So I schedule things during my working hours, because I know I'm not going to do it in the morning or after work. So like right now I'm doing a 10 week immersion with breath work. And it's at two o'clock on a Monday like, I know I'm gonna do it, cuz it's working out If that works for me, I know it doesn't work for everyone.

Kate Kordsmeier 51:03

Okay, I like that. Do you have this kind of a similar answer maybe but one tool or strategy, you know, like Kate Northrop's might be cycle sinking that you use to help you with time management.

Tarzan Kay 51:15

Yeah, breath work. Yeah.

I feel like I am really solid on time management. I am very scheduled. Like, I sit down at my desk. And I know what I'm doing for every hour of the day. And it hasn't always been like that. But now like, I'm running a pretty big business with a bunch of employees and like a long task list, and I'm scheduled I know what I'm doing every day, including on Monday, when I have nothing on my schedule. That's my writing day. I'm always writing but what helps me to actually show up and do it is breath work. In times when I feel like I'm creatively like it's my writing day, but I can't write or like I'm going to do a podcast but I don't feel inspired and I want to go asleep. I really love breathwork it's also like where I go Get my best ideas. It's how I returned to my mission and figure out what I'm supposed to do next. Like, it's super valuable to me. I work with someone Her name is coach Kathleen. Oh, just a little side note, shout out. She does free breathwork classes once a week, like for people who want to try it out.

Kate Kordsmeier 52:15

Okay, perfect. We'll link that in the show notes. What is the most powerful business or mindset book, you've read just one that you reference again and again, or that's made the biggest difference in your life,

most powerful business or mindset book. I try to steer away from like all the really cliche ones.

Tarzan Kay 52:38

I read so many books I'm constantly reading. Well, this just sounds really cliche, but I'm just gonna say it because it You said whatever comes to your mind first. The probably the first business book I ever read when I was like 18 or something was the four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss. And now it almost seems like old news like so many people have written more books about this, but That book totally rocked my world. Like I was like, Oh my god, there's a different way of working like you. You have to be like a nine to fiver.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:08

Yeah. So on that note, what is kind of your work? Like, what are your office hours that you keep now? Or do you know generally how many hours a week you work?

Tarzan Kay 53:18

Yeah, about 30. Monday to Thursday, and yeah, like roughly 10 to five.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:24

Okay, awesome. Let's see what is one of your favorite quotes or mantras or affirmations? I love the one that's behind you right now, actually. So yeah, let's see

Tarzan Kay 53:35

that. So that's actually a quote from Ernest Hemingway. And it says, just write one true sentence. And it's something that I come back to, like when I don't feel creative, and I don't feel like I have anything to say. And also sometimes something that I offer to people when they think they don't have anything to say. Just start with one true sentence and make it the truest sentence that you know. Be brave.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:00

Yeah. Okay, last question. What does Success with Soul mean to you?

Tarzan Kay 54:07

Oh, everything, it means everything to me. And I've definitely gotten off track with that. And I thought that it was all about making money and being the best, and having the most students and the most sales and the most people that think I'm the best to. I've totally gotten sucked into that. And I still do sometimes. But I'm fortunate to have people that I trust to remind me what's really important. And right now, like, I was just thinking about this this morning. I feel so motivated to make money right now, so that I can pass it around. Like to my employees, I feel so honored to be able to keep my employees at this time. And I like bought a painting from someone who I know is like, you know, possibly doesn't have much, you know, like to support business owners like to spread my money around locally, like to actually put money in people's hands, not like to that is like, to me, I'm winning if I can support people who are also doing incredible and brave work. Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy. Yeah, beautiful. I love that.

Kate Kordsmeier 55:16

Okay, Tarzan, where can people find you?

Tarzan Kay 55:20

So go to and get on my email list because it's where my best stuff goes. And I have many wonderful freebies, you can go to and get a promo sequence swipe, which people love but stay for the actual emails because it's something that is firmly inside my zone of genius. And if you want to learn, like I send three emails a week, it's a lot, but people stay on my email list because they're really good. So come experience that because you could send three emails a week to make lots of money.

Kate Kordsmeier 55:50

Yeah, I love that. I'm on your email list halfway halfway. Is that a word? Partly partly because I want to support you and I like seeing what You're doing and I'm interested in what you have to say. And then also because selfishly I'm like, how is she doing this? Let me see what she's going. This is like market research, so totally, totally. All right, thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for listening to the Success with Soul Podcast the place to be for holistic online business strategies and achieving more with less, as this show is a brand spankin new any and all support is greatly appreciated. So if you haven't done so already, please subscribe on the apple podcast app, Google podcast, app, Spotify or wherever you listen. This makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing guests. You can also give us a rating and review with your honest feedback so we can improve and better serve you in the future. Plus, you could be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally. But beyond that reviews help with rankings, which helps others find the show and allows me to keep providing you with free content every single week. Share the podcast with your friends, family, coworkers, dogs, cats, neighbors, whoever. And don't forget to join the free Success with Soul Facebook community at We have follow up conversations about the podcast episodes and I often go live to answer your burning questions. Plus, you'll get to hang out with like minded bloggers and heart centered online business owners exchanging priceless feedback, encouragement and other golden insight from the trenches. That's Until next time, remember to celebrate your progress, not perfection.

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