005: Harnessing Myers-Briggs Personality Types in Your Business with Jessica Butts

Jessica Butts 0:00

When we can stop, stop trying to first of all change people. But when we can just start accepting people that this is why you're this way, and you don't have to be like me to be my friend to be my husband to be my wife to be anything. When we can start that acceptance, it is on freaking believable. First of all the calmness that comes over you and the release of anxiety.

Kate Kordsmeier 0:32

Ladies and gentlemen, that was Miss Jessica Butts, one of the most hilarious brilliant women I know. And I could not be more excited to share the rest of this interview with you guys. It is definitely gonna make you laugh. It might even make you cry, especially if you really resonate with what it's gonna feel like to just feel so seen and heard and understood by this personality type assessment. It's the Myers Briggs personality assessment or personality type. And Jessica has come up with a revolutionary new approach to help people get the most out of this psychological instrument. It truly is so much more than just like a fun personality test. And Jessica is the founder of front seat life. And this is a company she's created that helps inspire, motivate and educate people to live their life from their front seat, which basically means using their innate abilities, and just embracing that innateness. So I love the title of one of her books. It's called don't do stuff you suck at, and it's exactly what we're digging into in this interview. So stay tuned to learn how you can stop trying to be well rounded and understanding what personality type is best suited for it. Entrepreneurship, blogging or owning your own business, and how this Myers Briggs assessment can help entrepreneurs bring more ease into their businesses, increased productivity, make sure you're hiring the right people because who you hire and their personality types is just as important. And then it even brings us into some of the talk of like, masculine and feminine energy and business and whether you're a man and a woman how to embrace both and what that really means. And then we even start talking about relationships we get into how understanding your personality type and your partner's can save marriages, and how to handle being married to your opposite, which is something I can personally relate to. So as a retired psychotherapist life and business coach and Myers Briggs expert, Jessica is on a mission to help others accomplish magnificent things by embracing their innateness. So excited to get into this Jessica is an ENFJ for anybody who already is familiar with the typing system. But if not, we are going to explain it all will help you identify your type. And Jessica is going to help you think outside the box lead with your heart. And she's just such a wealth of knowledge. I'm so excited. Let's dig in. You're listening to the Success with Soul podcast with Kate Kordsmeier ex journalists turned CEO of a multi six figure blog in online business. But it wasn't that long ago that Kate was a struggling entrepreneur who lacked confidence, clarity and let's be honest money. But all those failures, experiments and lessons learned helped Kate create a thriving business that impacts thousands and brings freedom, flexibility and fulfillment to her life. If you're ready to do the same and make something happen with holistic, soulful step by step strategies from hating other experts, you're in the right place. Here's your host writer, educator, Mom, recovering perfectionist, bookworm and sushi connoisseur Kate Kordsmeier.

Jessica Butts 4:12

Jessica Butts. Thank you.

Kate Kordsmeier 4:16

You're welcome. I'm beyond excited. Truly Me too. Oh my gosh. So I met Jessica, just a couple months ago for the first time. I'm in love with you y'all. collaring is just this contagious, infectious energy and a wealth of knowledge. Your specialty is like Myers Briggs type. And I find it so fascinating, especially as a relative newbie, to typing and I'm obsessed with personality tests. And so I love learning more about myself and I think it's so valuable. So I think that our listeners are going to get so much out of your wisdom and I'm so excited to dive in. Great

Jessica Butts 4:59

So fun to talk about. I mean, I love, love, love, love this topic, especially when it comes to entrepreneurs. I mean, I think there's a lot of different areas of Myers Briggs in front seat life in my psychotherapy background that are relevant for a lot of different areas, but especially for creative visionaries, which I know we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about. So I'm excited. Thank you for having me.

Kate Kordsmeier 5:21

Of course. Okay, let's start with just Why are you so passionate about the Myers Briggs? And, and for people who maybe have never heard of this before? What is it?

Jessica Butts 5:30

Yeah, so let's start with, I guess, boring little background, a little bit of what Myers Briggs is. It is the most widely used assessment tool in the world. It was built by a mother and daughter team back in the 40s. And it is now basically the go to personality type assessment. Everybody uses it, people have different variations. Again, I've created my own revolutionary approach to it. And the reason, personally, that it's my favorite My go to is a lot of what we're going to talk about today. So I grew up feeling like a weirdo. I just felt different than anybody in my family. I then married my opposite type I got into corporate America. And basically until I was 35 years old, I was like, What is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? Why am I not interested in the white picket fence? Why am I not interested in the nine to five? Why is what's okay? For a lot of people not okay for me, I always had this drive to, like, be ambitious and want different things in my life and saw the world completely differently and I was never happy with the status quo. It just was this like anxiousness in me to want to always be growing and creating and being different. And when I learned that it's I and a lot of your listeners are only 25% of the population, it all just clicked for me. And so that since then has become my life's work, I quit corporate America, I left my husband and I literally started my entire life over because I had designed the wrong life for myself. I was trying to fit into what's called a sensing world. And I just needed to go be a weirdo and a creative and build this different life. And so that's personally why I'm so passionate about it. I think there's a lot of other reasons which is you know, other work that I do about understanding your kids, understanding your spouse understanding yourself understanding your own energy, but quite honestly for me, it was a as it is for most people, right, your message your message, my mess was what the frick is wrong with me and then when I learned that this is not this is like my My I hate this phrase but I don't have a better one secret sauce like this is my zone of genius This is what differentiates me from the world I was like, all you know metal pedal to the metal, I always say it wrong or metal to the pedal whatever it is I was full systems go on, like no looking back, no letting this constraints of 75% of the population hold me down, like I got to live a different life. So that's why I'm so crazy passionate, and because Myers Briggs to me, explains it better than any, any anything that I've ever used before, and hence why I created my own what I call revolutionary new approach to it, which is front seat life because it takes it to a whole nother level of understanding your innateness. What you're actually naturally good at in this world. I literally wrote a book called don't do stuff you suck at which is also just recognizing that you we all have things that we are innately, not good at I am on my be hag. One of them anyway, I feel like I have a lot of them is to truly get people to stop trying to be well rounded, especially entrepreneurs. So this is a thing. I gotta be honest, I feel like it was a thing like back in the 80s, right? Everybody was trying to be well rounded. I'm gonna do all the things that I'm not great at. I'll be honest, I think parents do that a little bit like my kid needs to be great at math and science and the arts. And I'm like, that's not the same person. Just need to be good at what we're good at. And so through Myers Briggs, and then my work around it front seat life, and I teach you what is in your front seat, meaning there are only get this two things that we're good at two things each. So it's two different parts of your personality. So you and I, I think are both and F's. What are you okay, are you an INFJ or infj or an INTJ?

Kate Kordsmeier 9:58

Yeah, so I'm definitely And I am blank j, we've been trying to figure this out. I was an INFJ. But yeah, and I took a different quiz and it said, I am tj. But then I told you I was reading the description. And it was basically describing this like autistic person who has like, no emotion, a low social

Jessica Butts 10:21

stream. I mean, let's get real. The full types are like a little extreme so that people understand them. And so on that note, like, I feel like we could go a million ways right now. But on that note, there's a scale of preference. So the actual MBTI, the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, which by the way, you can only take from a Certified Professional like myself, I always cover those during my launch period times. I allow people to take it then because otherwise it's just expensive and difficult. Anyway, you get to find out this the only way you can actually find out where you fall on that scale. So my guest is Kate, you have a very special Slight preference. So the scale is actually zero to 30. And so imagine a teeter totter everybody, if you will imagine a teeter totter, if you're one through five on either side, so let's just use thinking and feeling since that's what we're talking about right now. That is what is considered a slight preference. So imagine standing on that teeter totter, and you could go to one side or the other. If you're in the middle of it, you're about one, go, yeah, you're not gonna tip over mine. Most of my preferences are very extreme. And so mine is like going over to the edge and you plop down and you're like, I got nothing over there I got, I can't relate at all. And so my guest key is that you are somewhere on the scale of a 12345 versus somebody like me, that's a 30 rant. The actual assessment which again, is not always easy to do, because you have to take it from a Certified Professional is very variable. eye opening for people because it gives you that scale that so many people are desperately looking for

Kate Kordsmeier 12:08

in the world, right like 16 personalities, which is a very common freedom free movement to do this with. I think what you what you told me in the past was it get those descriptions are for the extremes of those personalities. So

Jessica Butts 12:24

because again, they can't write, they can't write a description for every single variation, like I'm no statistician, but no INTJ looks exactly the same. So they have to write it for kind of the extreme version of what an INTJ could look like. And so for someone like you, that goes and reads it, you're like, Oh, this isn't super accurate for me, because I don't fall in that scale. Right. And so that again, that's why it's so great to actually take the MBTI and or a self assessment which is, you know, kind of what we're doing right now is just naturally talking about

Kate Kordsmeier 13:00

Okay, so before we get into my type and all that stuff, I want to just back it up a little bit. Again, for people that are new, let's talk about the differences of so you're either an IR and I enter an S f or a t j or a P. So let's start with ni. What are those mean? Okay, this is so fun. Okay, so

Jessica Butts 13:21

I love this is literally what I talk about all day.

introversion and extraversion is straight up your source of energy. That's it. People are so like up in arms about it means you're quiet. It means you're outgoing. It means whatever because quite honestly, introverts are quite outgoing and talkative to those that are very close to like your husband, Kate would probably never say, Oh, my wife is introverted, because you're chatty with him, your family and your close friends.

Kate Kordsmeier 13:50

And so that can be shy so people are not an introvert, you're not shy, and I'm like, that's not what that is. And that's exactly

Jessica Butts 13:57

why I love talking about this, and a lot elaborating on it further for Myers Briggs work because there's there's just so much more to it, you know, they're not around anymore. And so it's it's people like myself and other people picking up the work and elaborating on it based on you know, what I've seen as a psycho therapist and as a coach for all these years. And so one of those things is that introversion and extraversion is about your source of energy. And, and this is very important for your listeners. There is no such thing actually, I've changed my language around this ambiverts are not necessarily a thing. But your front seat is a balance of both an introvert and extrovert so we are never just one. So extroverts. It's again about energy, they get their energy from being around other people. It doesn't mean this They never want to be alone. Because that's what some people get in their head is like, oh, but I really like my alone time. So I must be an introvert. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. In your front seat again, we can get into that later on, there's two people in the front seat. One 100% of the time is extroverted, and one is introverted. It's just which one is in the driver seat. So your driver is introverted. That is your preference. My driver is extroverted, that is my preference. But in our front seat, there are both of those, which that explains the ambivert thing that people get in their head because they say, Oh, I'm in a combination. I'm like, you technically are, but there's a reason for it. And that's how I like to explain it to people in the car. So again, this is all about a source of energy. extroverts get their energy from being around other people. introverts get their energy from being alone, and those that they choose This is very important that they choose to be close to them. That is their decision about who they invite in. I like to think of it like a heart on your sleeve, right. So extroverts wear their heart on the outside of their sleeve, meaning they are given their heart given their best selves away to other people, which can actually seem pretty idiotic. I mean, as an extrovert, I'm like, wow, I really wish I would actually save my best self for myself. Why am I giving it away to other people? And then introverts, their heart is on the inside of their sleeve. Meaning you Kate had to invite me in to your inner world to get close to you. Yeah, that was a choice that you made to say, yes, Jessica, I dig your energy. You're my kind of people come on in, where otherwise I'm only going to see half of you. I'm not going to see the best version of you because you save that for people like myself, your husband, your kids, your family. Those that are very close to you. We're again extroverts. I mean, I literally give it away to other people. I'm always giving to my group and social media and some of my introverted friends just think I'm a crazy person, but I'm like, it's not a judgment. It's how you get your energy. Now, that is how extroverts get their energy versus introverts. Yeah,

Kate Kordsmeier 17:23

that's what makes so much sense to me, because I think too, like I am outgoing, and I am chatty, but I also I have close friends. I don't have acquaintances. You know, I, I feel like that kind of explains that and there's nothing else who said that Oh, and just like that. I can go on alive and do that but I am drained afterwards. And for

Jessica Butts 17:51

extroverts, it gives them energy. I fired up after this. Yeah, you're gonna be like now

Kate Kordsmeier 18:00

Generally,

Jessica Butts 18:01

and this is why I'm so insanely passionate. Again, I don't know when you're going to be hearing this, but we might still be in the midst of this Coronavirus, mess. But more than ever, this is why this is so important to be understanding our own energy and those around us. So that we understand that extroverts that may live by themselves, they need to be checked on. And you introverts that are stuck home with your kids and your entire family. Wow, you guys are going to need like some serious boundaries to not lose your mind. Yeah. And so this is my my second be hag is just to share this with everybody, entrepreneurs, families, anybody that will listen so that we can go through this world with a deeper understanding of ourselves and others. It's so powerful, so powerful, I love it. Okay, so that was he and I then comes sensing and intuition. So this is a big one. I think they're all big. You know, I talked about this at nauseum. I've got a course coming up where I literally, there's too much content to share live. So I like to package it all up in these videos. And then we can dig deeper because otherwise it's just it's right. There's so much content. So yeah, biggest sensing and intuition. I could spend probably a week just talking about this. And this is about how we take in information. So intuitively, our big picture people they take in information via their sixth sense. They are energy people, they are big picture. They live a little bit in the clouds, they're always thinking about what's next. They're always future tripping and Future Planning and they are not very often present in this actual moment. They are the past Yes, intuitive is denoted by an N because I is already used for introversion. Right? Okay is for this for entrepreneurs is incredibly important to understand, because every n is the creative visionary of their business. So for those of you who have read rocket fuel and traction, the intuitive types are the visionaries. Yeah. You know, what's interesting is Amy Porterfield talks about this because she's struggling. She had done a podcast on this. I'm not giving away any, like insider information, but she did a podcast where she says she struggles with that role, because she's an AI es fJ or is tj. But she knows that the hard part in her business is to actually be the creative visionary because she's actually a pretty nerdy detail oriented person and so So she struggles with that. So that's very, very important for almost all of your listeners as my listeners as well, because so many of my people are creative visionaries and intuitive types, that we have to understand that that is our energy, or even ask a question about that.

Kate Kordsmeier 21:16

Yeah, well, I was gonna say exactly that, that I knew that you had told us in the past that ends were that was like one of the common denominators for entrepreneurs. And I feel like I am an N and I definitely am fit way more into a creative visionary role than I do into like the integrator role or whatever. But I also am super detail oriented. And I can easily get caught up in the weeds of doing all the little things too. So talk a little bit about s now

Jessica Butts 21:47

and what does the sensing look like? So SS By the way, drumroll 75% of the population. Oh wow. I got it. Mind blowing, and this is where most of my clients, how do you know? I don't know if you're allowed to swear on your podcast moment? Okay, great. The oshit moment of, Oh, my God, I see this clearly. So asses are concrete, factual, in the moment kinds of people, they are the ones that right now with everything going on, they want to know all of the details. They also live in the moment. And again, most SS then say, well, doesn't everybody I'm like no, the other 25% of the population are experiential learners. They are thinking about the future. They are creative, big picture people. I always I like to think of this in two very concrete ways for our listeners. One is your checking account balance. So no intuitive in the history of the world has ever known how much money is exactly in their account. We just don't know it. We don't care. We are people that say there's enough because we're big picture people. Almost every s knows exactly almost down to the dollar at any given time how much money they have in their checking account because they love the details. The other way to think about this is a funnel. So at the top of the funnel is how intuitive types take in information. If they're going to walk into a party, a house, a wedding, they immediately sense energy. They sense lighting, music, the energy of the room, and sensors immediately notice things like how people are dressed, what the food is going to be like. They are very into the details. This is a big thing that I get asked a lot is do. Sensors still have intuition? And the answer is yes. But they take it in via their five senses. If they can touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it, see it, it is a fact. And they then build their intuition off of facts. So you know if Kate right now you were sitting back, but you're not but sitting back and crossing your arms and looking annoyed with me, if I was an S, that's how I would read your energy. But intuitively, we are, again, just energy people. I mean, you and I sought each other out at the mastermind. And we were like, yep, we like each other. And that's really all right, we just are We are very energetic kinds of beings. And so this one, in understanding your business, how you write specifically and more than any of the other ones, in terms of who you're going to hire for your company is critical. So I'll just be transparent. I had a an assistant that turned into my director of operations, and she She has been brilliant but she's an INFJ and I'm an E NF J. And my company got to a certain level and we were starting to have some problems because she's not an S and so I then hired an AI es fJ for my director of operations and I cannot even tell you the difference in what's getting done right now because her brain I say something and Kristin puts it into a spreadsheet like while we're talking and that is what intuitive need because we think up here in a theory or big picture concrete ways and then SS go route then they can suck it all in, take it in and like screw you know, Excel spreadsheet it or slack it or Asana it and like a hot minute and that's the beauty of understanding the differences in people.

Kate Kordsmeier 25:56

Yeah, I love this so much and I feel like especially because We've been in hiring, growing, you know, growth mode with our team too and thinking about personality type which, at first I you know, and I thought is it weird to ask people to take like the Myers Briggs test with them?

Jessica Butts 26:13

Yeah, stupid not to I'll go even further than weird I think it's idiotic not to

Kate Kordsmeier 26:21

Well, I agree now and I feel like it's so much more than just like a fun quiz to take and compare your results with your friends like when you really understand these different types and who's better in certain roles and even what you you know where you belong. It's it's amazing what it can do for your business and your life. So

Jessica Butts 26:41

okay, let's keep going literally mind blowing, okay, it really is. It is mind blowing. And I love that I get to share my own experiences with it of already realizing like, Oh my god, this is how like quickly this can grow and change watching the right people in the right job. So okay. Now thinking and feeling so this one's I mean, a little more obvious the last one, let's save a little more time for the last ones that's actually way more interesting. But thinking and feeling is an interesting one. And you and I kind of went back and forth with some voice messages and text messages because you were questioning this, I think the others are very obvious for you. thinking and feeling now that we have taken in information via our SRN. So big picture. Intuition or sensing our five senses is how do we go about making decisions? And to oversimplify it, thinkers make decisions with their heads in a logical way, and feelers make decisions with their hearts and I have the perfect example for this. That just happened yesterday. So my partner and I do not live together. And he is he's a little more thinking. He's definitely a feeler, but he He's a little bit like you. He's probably like a five feelers so he has way more thinking and way more logic in him. So we're in middle of the Coronavirus, and I was talking about coming over and I sent some hesitation from him. And of course, my feeling heart was like heartbroken of like, when are we going to not see each other for six weeks? I mean, I got very, like, flustered and you know, because I make my decisions off of my heart and my heart is there is no way that I'm not going to be with you, even for one weekend, but for certainly for the foreseeable future. And his logical mind was girl, I don't want to get you sick. Like I love you. I don't know if we're supposed to be doing this. So you know, like most couples, we got off the phone a little prickly and then we mended it because I said this stuff to him. I was like, as a reminder, you're more logical and I should have realized that and I am way more feely. And so I'm making Decisions off of my heart, and you're making decisions off of facts and logic. So, quite honestly, it's as simple as that. I mean, that is the best example I can think of, because this is what we're all in on a daily basis. And this is, I will add, I find this fascinating. So as a therapist, I've never I haven't done any formal research on this. But I have found that we are very drawn to our opposite types. So 75, roughly, roughly 75% of women are feelers. And roughly 75% of men are thinkers. So for heterosexual couples, that combination is pretty obvious. However, almost all thinking women end up with a feeling man and then the other way so feeling men are attracted to very logical women, and logical women are attracted to emotional men. And then it In homosexual couples, this I've found this to be almost universally true. Again, I haven't done actual stats on it. But in homosexual couples, they are also attracted to their opposites. And I think this goes back to like caveman days of we are looking for people to you know, I'm using air quotes on a podcast complete us. And when we're going through life, this is a very, very helpful tool to have in a partnership. So a business partnership or a life partnership, because that person can then see things that we're not seeing, like, right, I make my decisions off of my heart, which may not be the most logical in business or in times of a pandemic. So oftentimes, we need somebody a little more practical and logical, even though it hurts our heart right

Kate Kordsmeier 30:51

now, but this is so interesting to I mean, all of it I'm so fascinated by but this in particular is interesting because I'm thinking yeah, opposites attract. And that makes sense and and you have that sort of we balance each other out, we can complement areas where the other is maybe weaker or stronger, etc. But that being said, it can make it hard sometimes when you're like, why are you acting this way? How could you think this? How could you save that or do that? Because we are opposite. And so and this is

Jessica Butts 31:23

ultimately I know I've already said this three times. This is truly my B hag, is to help people understand that this is innate, which means it does not change. Kate, you were born into this world with your type. Your husband was born into this world with this type. You're about I'm a baby and that baby is going to come out of you in two months. The kid with a personality type do life circumstances affected Of course, but we are actually born with our type. So when we can stop trying to change people just like I did with my partner yesterday. Like, okay, let's slow our roll. Like, I get that you're more logical. And he's like, I hear you, I get this, because we are totally different people. And absolutely, it's going to cause conflict. But the more that we understand about ourselves first, and then our partner, we can have these conversations. You know, as a therapist, this is what I saw non stop. I was a high conflict couples therapist. It was so fun, by the way. Oh, fun. It was so fun. I loved it. I got to like, watch people fight all day. It was like reality TV. I mean, I got to watch reality TV all day, but I actually got to have an opinion to which was actually more fun. There were days where I was like, do I seriously get paid for this? Like, I love this. But those couples, there would be what you're talking about. Why are you like this? And why are you like this? And, you know, we have this innate thing that we want people to be like us, and when we can stop, stop trying to first of all change people. But when We can just start accepting people that this is why you're this way, and you don't have to be like me to be my friend to be my husband to be my wife to be anything. When we can start that acceptance, it is freaking believable. First of all the calmness that comes over you and the release of anxiety. So, as a therapist, one of my favorite tools was talking about codependency and I used to be very codependent. I call myself a recovering codependent, meaning that I will always be working on my codependency. And there's two different kinds of codependency there's the one where people jump on the other side of the net. I always think of it as a tennis court. Sorry, I'm in my own head and a tennis. I love it. Yeah, I'm very visual. So think of codependency as a tennis court. And there's one person on one side and one person on the other side okay, this is it could even be you and I and the first form of codependency is when one Person jumps on the other side of the net to try to manage and control that other person. Oh yeah. Why aren't you like this? Why don't you stay up late? Why aren't you so more creative? Why are you so logical? Why what? Right? Just

Kate Kordsmeier 34:16

by just stop,

Jessica Butts 34:18

right that I talked about this all the time, like pushing people back onto their side of the net. And that might look like ghosting them setting boundaries, having a difficult conversation, but it is our responsibility to be like thank you for your opinion. And I need you to get back on your side of the net and deal with your own shit. Because typically people we're getting so off topic here, but people typically do that because they are uncomfortable with their own stuff. Right? So get back on your side of the net, go read a book, go take a walk, mind your own freakin business and get out of my shit. Get out of my shit. And then the Other version, which might seem shocking based on my energy is the other version is the second, which is the person that allows someone to come over and jump all over them and to minimize them, to oppress them to squish their their being in any way. And I was married to a very, I mean, there was a lot of issues there. There's, you know, addiction and affairs and, you know, all kinds of things. But the bottom line was, he was a very uncomfortable person with himself. And so therefore, there was a lot of wanting to dominate me. And I just got to a place where I just wasn't doing it anymore. Like, I just got to be who I am. So for many, many years, that dance worked in our marriage because he was allowed to do that. And I was allowing him as soon as I started pushing back and said, No, bro, you got to go work on your ship, because mama over here is going to go do her own thing. Yeah, that didn't work. So there's obviously better ways to have that conversation in a relationship. But we had a lot of other issues as well. But that in addition to type, plus a couple of other things, I swear is like just this just nugget of personal development that will freaking save marriages, help you raise healthy kids help you grow a really successful business. I mean, this shit is just it's a game changer.

Kate Kordsmeier 36:21

It is and what I've found in relationships, whether they're family, parent, child, spouse, etc, or even friends is like, it gives me so much more empathy for that person, when I understand Oh, that's why he does this, especially, you know, with my dad and my husband. I have like two men in my life that and my dad and I maybe are a little too similar. And maybe that's caused some friction. But yeah, that once I really understood who they were, I stopped getting so angry when they did things and then it was just like, oh, okay, this is why you're approaching it this way. Yeah, that was so powerful. This episode is brought to you by my free blogging quiz. If you love the idea of blogging, but have no idea what you even want to blog about, I got you take our free quiz to find out what kind of blog you should start at Kate kordsmeier.com/quiz. Your results reveal which of the six types of profitable blogs best suits you plus step by step actions on what to do next to get started. That's successwithsoul.co/quiz if you're ready to get direction and finally start the blog of your dreams. So going back to it, we're on the you're either a thinker or feeler.

Jessica Butts 37:49

You're either introverted or extroverted, your eye sensing or intuitive SRN, thinker or feeler TNF, and then the last one's really really really fun,

Unknown Speaker 37:58

but yeah That one,

Jessica Butts 38:01

okay, so judging and perceiving is somewhat of a piggyback off of. It's very, very different but a lot of people and you actually just mentioned that that's why I'm bringing it up, get it confused with sensing and intuition. So judging and perceiving is about how people like to be organized in this world. Ah, okay, so this is this is urine n for sure. But you're also like me, which is J okay. And why are control freaks? Yep,

Kate Kordsmeier 38:31

yep. That I am the spitting image of a control freak. What Oh,

Jessica Butts 38:36

that Oh, ditto. Ditto. Ditto ditto. Yeah. So Jays, Jays energy and their organization I sorry, not their energy, their organization. So I have the visual for this visual for everything. If you pick yourself up from your shoulders, and place yourself in the world. This is how you like to be organized in the world and how you like your world organized around you. Yeah, Jays are organized, decisive decision makers Get out of my way I got somewhere to go. This is how you load the dishwasher and there's really no other way to do that. We have a plan I know what we're doing like a year from now. We have vacations planned out. We've kind of get up on the weekends and we have a plan we have structure and Jays again I don't know when you're going to be airing this but right now my podcasts Oh, it's just it's my podcast that came out today was about homeschooling and working from home and Jays. I cannot stress this enough. What I'm about to say, Jays need not want need structure and a schedule. Yes. If we don't have it, it causes anxiety. So you may have a child or you yourself if you're working from home still again, whenever you're going to be hearing this we might still all be working from home. You and I always work from home. So this is not that big of a Deal. We have to have a schedule. Otherwise we are aimless and we have anxiety. The worst thing you can say to Ajay is don't worry about it, we're going to figure it out.

So give me a plan so that I don't have anxiety. So again, this is a whole nother soapbox to get on. But all the parents right now that think this is fucking god, I'm sorry, but you think that there's a spring break and we might be in this for six months, you are going to be in a world I have chills right now you're going to be in a world of hurt. Your kids are going to be so anxious. If you don't start giving them a schedule. It is we go to school and we go to work and that is our schedule. Now if we don't have that, the anxiety is going to be off the charts for all these j kids that are like I don't know when I get up. I don't really know when I'm going to go to bed. I don't know what I'm doing all day. Hey Mom, what's the schedule? Hey Mom, what are we doing today? Hey, Dad. And if you say Don't worry about it, we're gonna figure it out. No, dude, it don't fly shit, because not gonna fly. So here's the deal with the other ones, please. God bless them. God bless them. They are go with the flow kinds of people, they live five minutes in front of their face. They are spontaneous, they are definitely not control freaks. They are they are the ones who say Don't worry about a baby, we'll figure it out. And they truly mean that the population differential on this is 5050. So more I mean, all of these are important but having I have seen this one save marriages, because there is this sense that you don't find this important. You're flaky, you're flighty, you're irritating, your whatever. And this is when couples can truly become teams. By You're standing your energy. And so whether or not your kids are home or whatever, like let the J parent be in charge of the whiteboard calendar, you know, this is what we're up to, this is what's going on. And then if you're married to your opposite, which is probably pretty likely let that person be in charge of playtime. You know, I was suggesting on the podcast today to do an hour segments because that's how much you know, we can usually pay attention so it might be 15 minutes, set a timer, and then 10 minutes of playtime. And so in terms of our business as well, peas don't need structure, but they certainly appreciate it. I have never in my life met a p that doesn't appreciate some good systems structure and singular focus. And here's the deal with JMP Jays are doers. peas are beers. We are great, right? We are horrible. Oh, I've, I have one tattoo. Yeah. And it says Be because I am such a control freak. Yeah, that a couple years ago, it was like ruining my life. I was like, if I don't relax a little bit and learn how to be in the moment, I'm gonna have a heart attack at 45 years old, like, this is insane. And so this is the only dichotomy and we might have to do a whole nother podcast on this because we're gonna run out of time. The only dichotomy that is not in the car, meaning all the parts of our personality that we don't get to do stuff that we suck at. This one is not included, which means Jays have to learn to chill the fuck out. Mm hmm. And peas have to learn to get their shit together.

Kate Kordsmeier 43:51

Yes. So this is definitely a case where I'm like, Oh, I'm absolutely married to my opposite and this point and it can be a major source of friction because he gets frustrated with me for like, Can you just chill, stop trying to control everything stop, you know, stop doing just relax. And I'm like, Can you just do something? Anything? I need you to take action? Sometimes that's all I'm asking for, you know, so we have that conflict a lot. Yeah.

Jessica Butts 44:25

Okay, so you can cut this out or tell me to stop talking if you don't want me to go here, but this is a very interesting, I'm putting my therapy hat back on. Is that j women? We have a tendency to have a lot of masculine energy. Yeah. And we are bossy. And we are this is where we're going. This is what's up. I mean, I was just having this conversation with my partner. I'm like, Where do you want to spend the weekend? And of course, he made a suggestion that I didn't really

like it. You know, we're not doing that. That's

in my mind. I was like, nope, fuck that. We're not doing that. And I was like, Okay, get into my feminine. What does he mean? Right now so j women because we're always in control, especially you mom's you got playdates and work and groceries and what are we doing and where are we going on vacation. And peas are literally living five minutes in front of their face. It doesn't mean they're idiots. Of course, it just means this is how they were created. So PS regardless of your gender, so Jays, regardless of our gender, have more masculine energy, but j women, we gotta check our shit with our men, especially if you're married to a p what you just said, Because peas, regardless of their gender, have a tendency to have more feminine energy, which is, I mean masculine energy is I don't know if you guys have ever read a intimate communion. There's only two really great chapters in there but it talks about masculine and feminine energy and masculine energy is a driver Energy. It's like New York energy, right? It's very masculine and gray and get out of my way. And I walk in fast and I got shit to do. And then feminine energy is very Hawaii. That's very like, we'll get there when we get there. Let's stop and have a drink. Let's just see how the day unfolds. Let's swim. Let's never do put our clothes on. Let's just wear a bikini all day, right? Like it's a very flowy energy versus j energy that's very driven. And so this is a really fascinating topic around masculine and feminine energy. And this is why again, type is so fun. Because once you understand your type, it can uncover a plethora of things in your life again, like masculine and feminine energy and chilling the fuck out and you got to get organized. So there's a lot to this.

Kate Kordsmeier 46:54

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love it. A lot of content

Jessica Butts 46:58

in the last 45 minutes. I know I was gonna say

Kate Kordsmeier 47:00

that I feel like I still have so many more questions for you. But that was such a good. I mean, it was way more than a primer, obviously. But I think this is this is so great, so good. Okay, let's talk about specifically I know we already said most entrepreneurs have the end. What are other personality traits that entrepreneurs tend to have in common?

Jessica Butts 47:23

That's about it if I'm being honest, so it's okay. So I came up with my own so I created for ncw life. That's my intellectual property. My other intellectual property is I came up with my own archetype. So john Bowlby has his own archetypes base of the Myers Briggs, I've created mine and they're much more fun than his because probably more fun than I'm probably more fun than he was. So there are four archetypes and you it's taking the second letter and the last letter and combining them together to do archetypes. So there's es peas, which are I call them the adventurers. They are just living in the moment. You and I, these are our arch nemesis. By the way, these people drive us fucking crazy. They're the ones By the way, it's spring break right now. They're the ones who are just like they're artists, they're creative. They typically have a propensity for higher addiction because they are very like I want to touch the taste and smell it see it artists music, they're typically chefs. They're very fun and spontaneous. And they don't think about consequences because they're living five minutes in front of their face. So I call them number two, you are s J's. They are the police. They are the people that want to murder all those people that are currently on the beach and they're the ones going crazy about it because by the way, you're gonna have to hear this in the near future because otherwise all these references are

Kate Kordsmeier 48:48

now coming out in May. So we got

Jessica Butts 48:51

to come right to you talking about all there is. So s j's are the police they are concrete thinkers, factual. In the now and also right very masculine energy, you got to do this thing the right way. Here are the details and get it done. They're very driven. They're the responsible police of the world. Yeah, those are not entrepreneurs. Typically, I mean, again, some people might send me some hate mail. It's not your best use of yourself because the other two are the big picture thinkers we can we are unemployable, like, intuitive or unemployable. Like if someone told me when to be to work I haven't taken a shower today and I probably won't until three o'clock but this is how I roll right? So intuitively the other two and Jays which are you and I, okay are very entrepreneurial very Oprah brock obama, a Steve Jobs lots of entrepreneurs are n J's because we have very, very big picture ideas, but we are also get her dinners were kinda like Get out of my way or I'm gonna roll you over. We are fast Movers. Click makers Get out of my way. All of these have pros and cons. And of course the con of this is we can be a little abrasive. We can be a little prickly. I mean, there's this, like, I don't have time to deal with this bullshit. So I need you to get going. Like I just had this with my content manager the other day she was him and Han I was like, girlfriend, we ain't got no time for this. We gotta move we got a match. And let's go. And so this again, goods and Bad's of both, and then the other and the last one for entrepreneurs are NPS, which I call them the swirls, which might be your husband. It sounds like very big picture, super creative think outside the box, but they don't really like to finish projects. Again, they live five minutes in front of their face. They're all over the place. They're like Hey, honey, why don't we do this and the next week they're on to a new thing and you're like, wait, what, what what happened to the thing? What happened to you going to back to graduate school or what happened to you taking a class online? What like what happened? They're very creative. They can also be excellent entrepreneurs. If they have a coach, yeah, cuz they me barter is important when you have to have a coach, they have to have a mastermind they have to have a fall low through because otherwise they look very squirrely and fishy and weird. And there's no no like and trust. So there's that answer. Most most again, not all, not all. This is not no nothing in life is 100% I'm an 8020 girl, I believe in 8020 80% hustle 20% rest 80% of the time we're in our front seat 20% we're in our backseat, and we're going to not be our best self. And I believe this is probably an 8020 rule as well can SSB entrepreneurs, of course, but they have trouble seeing the big picture. Yeah, and I think that's just good to know. It's like, yeah, you can be an ass and be an entrepreneur, but you might, it might be harder for you. You might struggle more than if you weren't at And, you know, everybody needs help. This is no right or wrong. We are not better than the other. And I mean, sensors think we're completely crazy, like ns need SS and s needs need ends Period. End of story.

Kate Kordsmeier 52:14

Yeah, the world could not operate if everyone was one time Oh, it'd be Terrible. Terrible. So okay, so that's kind of the personality types for entrepreneurs. Let's talk about kind of more maybe hiring. So we've already mentioned a little bit of the visionary integrator. So this comes from the rocket fuel book, which again, if you haven't read it, and you're an entrepreneur and you are hiring anybody you need to Yep. What is the ideal integrator type

Jessica Butts 52:44

of a few? Yes, there is. There is SJ. Period, end of story. There's just no, there's no I would never, ever, ever hire somebody that wasn't an SJ and here's why. Intuitive Need an S period End of story. And this is you know, somewhat good news for Jays. If you're a J, you have to hire a j because he is going to drive you insane. And then peas also have to hire a j because they've got to get stuff done. They have to be organized, planned, detailed again like Kristin. I mean, she just literally say something and immediately Sue she's an Asana, like putting together some nerdy spreadsheet that hurts my head. And so the integrator role, it doesn't matter if you're introvert or extrovert, or feeler or thinker, it does not matter. But an es fJ, in my opinion as an expert in this field. 100% has to be an SJ period. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 53:49

And for anybody who doesn't know, but an integrator for lack of a better term is often like coo or director of ops very similar gunners.

Jessica Butts 53:58

They yet My thing is they get my visions into reality.

Kate Kordsmeier 54:03

Right? They make it happen. You can work on it your ideas and they make it happen. That's exactly what's happening right now. Yeah. And to me, I would think maybe it's not a deal breaker but and he would be a better person in this role because they're managing people sometimes

Jessica Butts 54:20

sometimes, but this is interesting. So I am, I'm very extroverted. I have a lot of external ideas. I have a lot of like verbal diarrhea. And I actually like the fact that Kristen's an introvert because otherwise there's too much talking. She, I mean, she's just listens and is like, okay, and gets it done. She's communicative enough for sure. I've had only one extroverted assistant in my life, and I actually found it a little irritating, because we would, we would get off on a tangent we just go I mean, two hours later, I'm like, Oh my god, like,

Kate Kordsmeier 54:59

Yeah, it is. And then yeah,

Jessica Butts 55:01

and so introverts could get annoyed by an extrovert. And so I don't I don't know if that's super, super important. Yeah, I

Kate Kordsmeier 55:11

can see that. And I know I was hiring a personal assistant last year. And I was like, I'm not hiring an extrovert because I work from home and I don't want somebody chatting in my ear all day. Basically, like, I don't really want you to talk to me until I you and say, Hey, I need to tell you about this. Yeah, and extroverts

Jessica Butts 55:31

are external processors. We love to talk we love to process externally are ideas, introverts, you guys are doing it in your head. So it's not a lot of fun when you have the opposite, right? So if you're the visionary and you're an external processor, or I'm sorry, an internal processor, you don't need someone kind of spouting off their ideas because you're already doing that inside.

Kate Kordsmeier 55:57

Right? Right.

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Jessica Butts 57:14

Those are typically more introverted because of their own energy, they are going to be sitting in their house most of the day in front of their computer for their best energy. That's what you want them to do. You want them heads down, not chit chatting with their friends. They're not on social media a lot. Like they're getting a lot of shit done, because that's their preferred energy, then ask again, TNF does not matter. And then j so I asked TJ or is fJ, and I'll tell you the reason that I don't think the thinking and feeling matters. But where we need to be aware is that us feelers can sometimes get our feelings hurt by someone who's a little to Curt or short, but I think it's navigatable I actually don't, I don't need someone. I mean, I'm a feeler but I certainly don't need my assistant like crying and emoting and all of that shit when we're getting work done because I'm like, we're here to do a job. So I actually as a strong feeler, I actually don't mind having a thinking assistant because that's, I mean, you're not my friend. We're a team, like we need to get some shit done. And so sometimes I like that logical stance but for a VA and is TJ is fJ.

Kate Kordsmeier 58:31

Okay, I love it. Yeah, that makes so much sense. I and I do think I lean slightly more towards the T side of things and the TF. And that just when you saying that about having like employees or team members crying, last year, I had this woman on my team and I swear she cried every call we had, and especially as somebody who probably leans more towards the logical like I think I think I struggled with this because I'm like, No, I'm a very empathetic person. And I'm sensitive. I can't stand being around criers time. And it got

Jessica Butts 59:07

to be a problem. So I don't really see. And again, I'm a feeler and I can't handle it either. Like if you're my friend, that's one thing, but we got shit to do. Like we got a business to run.

Kate Kordsmeier 59:19

Yeah, for sure.

Jessica Butts 59:21

Yeah. Okay, what

Kate Kordsmeier 59:22

about not hiring but just in terms of productivity? And type? Is there something like if most entrepreneurs are n J's, let's say, then what can we do to use that information to help us be more productive?

Jessica Butts 59:38

Yeah, great question. I would say the answer to that is figuring out your front seat in your back seat. So I mean, we obviously don't have time to get into this today. But this is basically like the undergrad of type this was the basics and the core, the graduate school level is then putting it into work which is understand Your front seat in your back seat. So I have a bunch of resources for that. One is there's a free quiz on my website, which is just Jessicabutts.com/quiz, and it actually gives you your front seat in your back seat, then all of this is in my books, any of my courses, anything like that, obviously, you have all of that, but it's also just for free and honoring your front seat at least 80% of the time, and as an nj or an NF. That means creativity and being in relationship to people, for you. It's creativity and being fairly logical with your business. And then graduate school like postdoc is stuff is understanding how introversion and extroversion and affect that so I'm going to say you're an INFJ and I'm an INFJ. And here's the difference. Okay, my front seat is actually extroverted feeling introverted intuition, which means when I am out, connecting, loving, doing stories, Instagram, social media, doing a podcast, communicating, speaking all of those things that is my very, very best self. It is my zone of genius naturally and innately I was born to do this. But my other side, my co pilot, my front seat is equal. These two people make up my best self 80% of the time, the other person is in my head. So I'm an introverted, intuitive, which means I actually don't like collaborating with people. Hmm. This is a very interesting thing that my current assistant Stephanie and I realized, so she's the opposite. So I like to do my thoughts in my head. I don't like collaboration because I have no Stop ideas. Hers is the opposite. She because her front seat is the same two letters, but different seats. She is an external ideas. So she loves to collaborate. She loves to come over here and think about all the material things. And what about this? And what about this and I'm like, I've already done all that, like I've been doing that in my head. And so sometimes it's really fun. And sometimes I'm like, Girl, I've been there done that for the last six months like this is what my brain does all the time. So it's weird for people when I'm as giving as I am, but I again, there's a lack of collaboration and so you and her have a more similar front seat in that you are an external ideas person as well. There's a lot of collaboration and ideas and Honeywood if we did this and with your team. What if we did this and we write this and whatever and then her inside and you're innocent Yours is probably in your head. So you're gonna do a whole bunch of logic and planning and resources and probably doing crunching numbers, like all of those kinds of data and details like this is how many podcasts I need to get done before I have this baby and all this, like all the things. And my assistant is she does all of those feelings inside. So when he's here, oh, how are you? I want to talk about all these feelings. She's saving that for herself, where I want to like talk about them, but she wants to talk about ideas, but I'm doing those inside. So while someone can seemingly be very different, we actually are very, very different, like we missed the mark on those kinds of things. So to answer your very long answer to that question is you have to understand the front seat life methodology, which is again, this revolutionary new approach to it, to take it to a much deeper level and so on. studying it, getting it out understanding it. I have a free squad where there's a ton of free resources, taking the quiz reading books, again, whatever level of interest you have right now there's more information I have, you know, an entrepreneurial, I call it don't use w sock at entrepreneurial school for creative, intuitive, because we are a bunch of weirdos and we have to understand how to run our business based on who we are. We are not like 75% of the population. So again, whatever you might be done, like if you're listening, you're like, I'm good. I don't really care anymore. But the next step would be to take a quiz. The next step would be to get into the squad, find more information and follow me on Instagram. If you want to spend 18 bucks on a book like there's that option. They're all on Amazon and then the next would you know to find out more so

Kate Kordsmeier 1:04:48

yeah, well that links to all this stuff in the show notes for anybody who does want to take it to the next step. I know I personally am going to hang up and go take the quiz. It's real

Jessica Butts 1:04:59

funny. It's it's fun and funny, but very, very accurate. I mean, people are always like, I don't know how you did this. I'm like, well, because I'm a real nerd. I love this shit. So it's fun and accurate. Lots of people can take it kids about that kind of 12 1314 sixth grade, they can start taking it then too, so yeah, lots of resources. Awesome. Super. Yeah.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:23

Okay, so before we wrap up, I asked everybody these same five questions. Oh my god. Okay. Okay, well, like one answer. You don't have to elaborate you can just, it's quick. Okay. What is your favorite way to make time for self care while running your own business?

Jessica Butts 1:05:43

As a j I'm very very compartmentalize so I know when to shut down and when to go. So I'm a morning person, I get up at 5am and then by two or three, I am done.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:05:55

done. I love that. Okay, what is one tool or strategy that you use? To help with time management could be like mine is the Eisenhower matrix. Kate Northrop's is probably cycle thinking, What's one tool that you like to use? For time management?

Jessica Butts 1:06:11

Yeah, this is so

dorky. That's actually I, I'm a big picture person as an intuitive. So I use two different things at nauseum. I have a huge wall calendar, always I get next year's calendar in June of the current year. So I've had 2020 ups since June of 2019. And that is how intuitive Lauren, by the way, so we have to have that kind of visual. And then I am a calendar person. Like if it's not on my Outlook calendar, it doesn't exist. So it's not very creative or interesting, but I am an old schooler I just stick with what works.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:06:47

Yeah, perfect. What is the most powerful business or mindset book you've ever read? Just the one that you reference again and again and has made the biggest difference in your life. That's not fair. I have a few.

Jessica Butts 1:07:02

Firestarter sessions by Danielle Laporte codependent no more by melody BD. Don Miguel Ruiz The Four Agreements. Now those are probably my favorites.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:07:13

Okay, I love that. Well, somebody else had Firestarter sessions too. So I got to add that to my list go good. Okay, do you have a favorite quote or mantra or affirmation that you tell yourself when things get tough and you feel like giving up?

Jessica Butts 1:07:26

I'm probably this is interesting. My my mantra for my business which is similar to mine is being unapologetically who I am. So at any time I start doing comparison, which I obviously do, because everyone does, or I get down on myself or whatever, I just am like just frickin Be yourself. Just be myself. I go back to what I'm really great at. I go back to my zone of genius. And then the other thing right now that's very up for me and lots of people is that I have proven to myself in the past that I Do hard things. So I just go back to what else have I done so I'm a journal reader. I'm a journaler but then once a quarter I reread my journals to prove to myself that I fucking done hard things. I will get through this just like I did being totally broke after my divorce and my world falling apart. And you know, my podcast guests yesterday, Nadia who lost her son, I mean, she's now like, I got this is nothing people because I had tools and resources. I can prove to myself that I can do hard things. So I think there's some of that too. There's a beauty and being 46 years old, like I got a lot of life shit under my belt.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:08:40

I love that though. I can do hard things I like yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah. Okay, last question. Oh, you know the name of the podcast is Success with Soul. So what does Success with Soul mean to you?

Jessica Butts 1:08:53

Yeah, just straight up. What I just said totally being unapologetically who you are. You got to know who you are. You can't. There are There's no one size fits all person there is no one size fits all coaching there's no one size fits all entrepreneurial gig like you got to know who you are and then attract your clients do not try to be vanilla Do not try to get everybody to like you just stop that shit, the weirder You are the better and so you got to know your soul if you are a crazy freaky whatever person great even better because your soul gets to shine that way and then you attract the people that are attracted to your weirdness.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:09:33

I love it be weird,

Jessica Butts 1:09:35

he weird I only girl weird is awesome. calm.

Six years ago, I said at one day,

Kate Kordsmeier 1:09:44

I was like, Oh, I need to buy that. That's amazing. D Are you one of those people? I feel like I have a few people in my life that they own like 20 URLs that they're like, I haven't done anything. I think that like one day,

Jessica Butts 1:09:54

they all go back to my site. But yeah, I just you know, I get an idea. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna go spend 1299 on And that you are

Yeah, super obsessive, but you're probably on 20 Oh my gosh, hilarious.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:10:08

All Thank you so much. That was so fun. I love I mean, I'm, I'm addicted to this stuff now too. I can't

Jessica Butts 1:10:15

wait to go take your quiz. Yay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Kate Kordsmeier 1:10:23

Thanks for listening to the Success with Soul Podcast the place to be for holistic online business strategies and achieving more with less. If you like what you heard today and you want to take it to the next level. Go check out the episode show notes over at Kate Kordsmeier calm as this show is a brand spankin new any and all support is greatly appreciated. So if you haven't done so already, please subscribe on the apple podcast app, Google podcast, app Spotify or wherever you listen. This makes it possible for me to continue to provide free helpful content and bring you amazing Guests, you can also give us a rating and review with your honest feedback so we can improve and better serve you in the future. Plus, you could be featured on a future episode during our listener spotlights. Your reviews are super helpful and motivating to me personally but beyond that reviews help with rankings, which helps others find the show and allows me to keep providing you with free content every single week. Share the podcast with your friends, family, coworkers, dogs, cats, neighbors, whoever. And don't forget to join the free Success with Soul Facebook community at successwithsoul.co/Facebook. We have follow up conversations about the podcast episodes and I often go live to answer your burning questions. Plus, you'll get to hang out with like minded bloggers and heart centered online business owners exchanging priceless feedback, encouragement and other golden insight from the trenches. That's successwithsoul.co/Facebook. Until next time, remember to celebrate your progress, not Perfection